Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Solving vs Fixing: The Path to Relationship Healing
When it comes to healing from betrayal trauma and addiction, are you trying to fix a problem or solve it? There's a profound difference, and it could determine whether your recovery lasts or fails.
Fixing applies a temporary patch to immediate symptoms. Like vacuuming only the visible parts of a room while ignoring what's under the furniture, it creates an illusion of completeness when crucial work remains undone. Solving, however, addresses root causes and creates sustainable change through an ongoing process of growth and healing.
This distinction shapes our recovery. True repentance isn't just saying "sorry" when caught, but repeatedly allowing your heart to be softened until change becomes natural. Healing requires individual work alongside couple's work—you can't "fix" another person, but you can partner to clean up the mess together, each taking responsibility for your own healing journey.
Trust issues exist on both sides. The betrayed partner wonders if they're getting the complete truth, watching for "uncleaned corners" that signal continued deception. Meanwhile, the betraying partner must overcome shame to share vulnerably, learning that missing something doesn't define their character but offers an opportunity to grow.
Like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, transformation happens through a God-designed process that can't be rushed. We grow incrementally through repeated choices to respond differently, fight through shame, and practice vulnerability when hiding feels safer. These small changes compound to create lasting transformation.
What part of your recovery journey are you trying to fix when you should be solving? Share your experience or ask questions about process-oriented healing approaches. Your story matters, and we're here to listen.
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Kim Capps. That was created to help individuals and couples who are walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today and welcome Welcome back For those of you who have been listening to our podcast. Great to have you back with us. Hey, john, how are you Howdy? Welcome back to you as well.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:And we. So we ended last week, not last week, last podcast with a question that I had asked and a statement that I made about repenting. When does true repentance happen? And if you're confessing, you know and getting, or you say you're confessing but you're just ranting, the guy or gal calls you on it and you go, oh yeah, but then it's a continued, you know, next month or the next month it's not fixed, it's not healed. Is that really repentance? And that actually the word I was looking for did I say it last night? Dovetails into this our episode today, which is solving versus fixing.
Speaker 2:Imagine that.
Speaker 1:So, and talking about the repentant side of the heart, we can get into that, but I want to talk about the differences in our thinking on how we make repairs, how do we fix it. Are we ever fixed? Are we ever healed? And I've talked to and listened to a lot of ladies share and tell their story, and they could be 15, 20 years past the discovery, the disclosure, and they're still working on healing. They still have things that come up, they're better equipped and they're stronger than they've ever been, but it's, I think I heard a lady say on a podcast just recently I am healed, am healed, I am healing and I will be healed. So it's this past, present, future thought process. I totally can resonate with that. So, again, I am like a huge questioner, I ask a lot of questions, am like a huge questioner, I ask a lot of questions and I like to use AI a lot and I say a lot frequently. And so I just asked, I did a solving versus fixing and what they came up with Google AI came up with it was this While both solving and fixing refer to addressing a problem, solving implies a deeper understanding of the issue, tackling the root cause and finding a long-term solution, whereas fixing often means applying a quick temporary patch to alleviate immediate symptoms, without necessarily addressing the underlying problem.
Speaker 1:That came to my mind as we were closing out last podcast, the last episode of the whole repentance heart. If I repent, it's not a sin, or I don't know that. That's what you said. That's more than likely not what you said. So my apologies, but it was this you were claiming repentance if the guy calls you on it and then you, oh yeah, okay, you're right. But then you repeat it. To me that's not repentance. I think that's a whole other episode. Repeat it To me, that's not repentance. I think that's a whole other episode. However, it does speak to this fixing or solving, as it relates to betrayal and relationships and making repairs on the relationship.
Speaker 1:I think and and I believe, fixing is a project. Right, we fixed the broken water pipe over by the she-shack. Solving is a process. It takes time and there could be a lot of fixes in there, but solving is a process that takes a lot of time. Fixing is short-sighted, solving is long-term. That's what I think. And so then I and saying all that you know, fixing is a project, solving is a process.
Speaker 1:Then I went huh, well, a project versus a process. What does that look like? Well, good old AI comes and says a project is a unique, temporary endeavor with a defined beginning and end, while a process is an ongoing procedure that repeats A project. Now this guy, keith Norris, on his website, he says a project is about creating something new or implementing a change, whereas a process is intended to create value by repeatedly performing a task. So, and to me that says I can be a person of integrity, I can be a person of I'm in the process of healing, I'm in the process of recovery, I'm in the process of learning, and I know this because I repeatedly am choosing better things for me, right? Healthier options for communication, for instance. Healthier options for my anger, not running at you with a baseball bat, but choosing to go bless your heart.
Speaker 2:And that can mean so many things. To pause and communicate clearly hey, this is what I need in this moment, right, and I'm feeling something different. I don't know if that's your intent, but I'm feeling this and I'm going to pause for a minute and say that, rather than take up the offense and react based on that and to the repentance thing or piece of the conversation. Repentance is a change of your mind and for me it's. I think you know I'm doing something right, I'm harboring bitterness, I'm sharing that and I get called on it and all of a sudden I'm like, oh crap, you're right, and so I change my mind about that, what I thought.
Speaker 1:For that minute or three, until you go back and pick it back up.
Speaker 2:Right, and so then I have to repent all over again.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And that is, and eventually what happens is the Holy Spirit gets faster Because as he breaks down in me those barriers that I've put up, the hardening of my heart, which is what bitterness does and as I pursue the softening of my heart, he's able to penetrate that faster and faster. It doesn't take somebody pointing it out to me, it only takes the Holy Spirit saying hey, and at some point it happens organically and automatically, where I receive a stimulus and I have the choice to drop it or hold it, and more and more frequently I choose to drop it because I know where it goes if I hang on to it, and so that to me is the whole repentance. It's a process that's repeated over and over so that you create this tender heart, but it often takes repeated repentance in order to break through all of the hardness that we create in our hearts.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. It doesn't make it easier on my side over here though.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make it easier on anybody's side. I mean, when you're sinning against somebody, that's as we discussed in the last episode there's consequences on both sides.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:So yeah, but that's where grace can come in and cover those. But man, that's a hard one.
Speaker 1:I got something I can cover you with.
Speaker 2:Six foot of dirt.
Speaker 1:I love that. I wasn't even thinking that. I was thinking like yeah. I'm not even going to say it, there's a lot of things that could come your way out here on the ranch.
Speaker 1:Oh show, oh my Atlanta. Yeah, I mean I think we have been. I know I have been short-sighted on this whole recovery, on your healing, on my healing. I know at the beginning I was charged with forgiving and if I would just forgive, everything would be better, and that didn't work. Everything would be better and that didn't work. And so for me it became a project to attempt to help you, to help fix you, and that didn't work. That was horrible, horrible.
Speaker 1:Do I just highly recommend ladies, just bypass that step right there. It is not fruitful, it's not beneficial, it is devastating to you and it will hurt rather than help the situation. The guys are responsible for their journey and for their healing and for finding their solution to their trauma, be it a professional counselor, a coach, a mentor. Who's been down this journey before? I just want to remind us, as the betrayed spouses here, that we are responsible for us and our healing journey and what we bring to the table as far as the repairs go, as our partners who did betray us work to heal and work to find their solutions and get their feet under them. Boy, if I could just hug you and grab your shoulders and just say stay in your lane and allow them to do their own work. It will be so much better on you when you do that, and that is from speaking and attending the School of Hard Knocks, built and funded by Kim Capps. Did you have anything to?
Speaker 2:say on that With a guest lecturer of John Right, and I will add to that. It'll help them. It'll help your partner as well To stay in your own lane and not have those crazy expectations and and work together on cleaning up the mess and not attempt to fix each other right and there's a time to work together.
Speaker 1:There's a time that we couldn't work together. You lied, lied to our counselor dude. I lied to several counselors, but any we absolutely couldn't do. We attempted a couple of counselors, one very, very well-known and highly trained, and you lied to him. I couldn't believe it. And you lied to him, I couldn't believe it. So there is a place and a time for couples' work. I know some of these guys out there are stating, hey, if you get there early, it has to be working individually as well with counselors.
Speaker 2:I would definitely agree with that and I wasn't saying that everything is done together. I'm saying it's a mess and partner to clean it up, saying it's a mess and partner to clean it up, and some of that definitely is okay.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna clean up this spot and you clean up that spot and then we'll work together on this spot, right, and what if you only do like a half booty job on it, like I'm in a vacuum and I go? Okay, did you vacuum under the nightstands? Did you vacuum here?
Speaker 2:And you know, yeah, and that's that's where, um, and that's where the value of partnership really comes in, because we have blind spots, we absolutely have blind spots. And I will say and I'm speaking from the guy's perspective for sure, I I mean you didn't start listening to this podcast because you're not married to somebody with significant blind spots and the ability to deceive himself is that we have blind spots and we think we're really doing the job and we forget to vacuum in certain spots. And so then there's two options, right, when you say, hey, did you do this? Well, I have the option to get offended. Or I have the other option to say, oh crap, good point, let me go do that. Right, and that's how we work together. And that is the whole point of working together, because I miss things and I'm sure in some context you miss things.
Speaker 1:I do miss things. What are you talking about, Willis? Yes, I do, I'm not this perfect trophy wife that you make me out to be, John.
Speaker 2:You are to me oh, my Atlanta. But like cleaning the grill, the griddle, that was easy, right, no offense, it was just something that needed to be done and it's the same. I can be offended by that, or I can just serve and say, hey, I got that, and that's how we work together and build a better life together. And you know, god bless Joe Biden. Of all the things that he ever said, the one thing that I can, the one thing and I'm sure he didn't really come up with it, but the whole build back better slogan. I can actually sign on for that, because that's what we're attempting to do here. That's what we're working hard do here. That's what we're working hard to do. It's not his way, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But we're working hard to build back better Mm-hmm, and that's not possible if we don't work together.
Speaker 1:Right, it's hard on. I mean, it is so hard when you know you know vacuum here, vacuum, and I'm just making it on vacuum because we were cleaning the she-shack. We have guests coming in this weekend, and so you know John was vacuuming, I was going to mop and wipe encounters blah, blah, blah. And so you know John was vacuuming, I was going to mop and wipe encounters blah, blah, blah. And so I know how I want and how things I'm going to shit it here should be done.
Speaker 2:Go back. You know how you want it done, Right. And what did we say in the last episode? Remind me, resentments are.
Speaker 1:Unmet expectations.
Speaker 2:Or premeditated. What was it?
Speaker 1:Uncommunicated, unspoken expectations, unspoken expectations or premeditated resentments.
Speaker 2:You knew in your mind everything that needed to be vacuumed.
Speaker 1:I know there's a floor in that entire room that need to be vacuumed. That's what I know. That's not rocket science there, john Right Dude, it's a floor, it's supposed to get vacuumed.
Speaker 2:I mean yes to get vacuumed.
Speaker 1:I mean so and okay. So now translate that to betrayal and that healing process of dude, you didn't vacuum. What the what? Why didn't you vacuum under the nightstands, right? Why didn't you vacuum under the bed? Get there's corners here, because I know where all the little things. I lived over there for months. I know where all the little things get and the webs and whatnot. And so it's hard on our side when we know. Well, let me say it this way, I think you know, because you're a 50-something-year-old man, you're in an adult body anyway. So I'm thinking you're an adult here.
Speaker 1:And we have run Airbnbs, we cleaned this house. Well, now I'm questioning that. Oh, my goodness, I'm going to have to. Okay, I got to. After we finish this, I got to rethink this little cleaning thing. Oh, wow. And so I think you know how to clean. I know you know how to work a vacuum. I've watched you know how to clean. I know you know how to work a vacuum. I've watched you. It's getting those crevices and I will go from, because all I can do is speak to my stuff. My hesitation in the whole reconciliation side of things has been did you clean out the crevices? Did you get under the nightstands Is everything? Did you get everything? Does that make sense? Yeah, okay, so we're going to practice a little communication here. What did you hear me say? What's your interpretation?
Speaker 2:Speak it back to me, please. Well, the important piece of what I heard you say, using the vacuuming as an analogy, was the hesitation that you've experienced, is the ongoing question in your mind is did you pick up the end table or the nightstand and vacuum under it? Did you clean out all the gunk of your life? Have you allowed God into all those places and have you allowed me into all those places?
Speaker 1:And that's the question that I heard you say yeah, that's fair, yeah, that's good, I'll go with that.
Speaker 2:And my answer is the same as the repentance. Right, it's a growing process. It's growing in trust, growing in trusting God with those things, growing in trusting you with those things. And unfortunately, I have trust issues. Perhaps somebody else listening might have trust issues. Perhaps somebody else listening might have trust issues and those things are hard to solve. It's a process. It's not fixable. Right, it has to be grown through. Right, it has to be grown through and it has to be solved progressively through all of these… One small change at a time in those work and come to fruition and and developing the muscle memory to trust that. Okay, I'm gonna share this and I'm gonna share this hesitantly, and is it gonna be received?
Speaker 1:imagine coming having that from our side.
Speaker 2:I was just fixing to say it, it's the same journey on both sides. It looks completely different, the hurt is different, but it's a similar journey in trust for people that have broken trust in their history and are still working through. I mean, for me, it's been a journey of working through the past traumas to get to the point where I can even deal with the current relationship issue of, and deal with the current relationship issue of okay, so you think you can't trust your wife. Well, so make a list of all the things that create that and then test those and see are they real or are you projecting onto her things from your past and is that fair? And so yeah, that's a journey. It goes back to those resentments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the whole. I mean just the. I don't want to. Is it worry? Is it concern? Is it it's fear? It's big time fear, because you've already betrayed me and, if I know, you're not sweeping under the, you're not getting all the cobwebs, because I can still see them. They rear their ugly heads and I, I'm watching right, I'm on high alert. I am um, just on, I got my binoculars out and I am looking. I'm looking for the coyotes to come across the pasture so I can blast them, and I know those things are there and you're not coming clean.
Speaker 1:You're not, I say coming clean. That doesn't sound right, but you're not trusting me with that information. You're telling me I vacuumed. You're telling me I did a good job and praise me, but it wasn't a complete job, and that is so. It is difficult on my side of the street here to then want to link arm and arm with you, to start solving issues when there's still hiddenness. There's still, in my opinion, deception, because you said you vacuumed but you didn't. Now tonight you said oh, you were straight with no, I didn't get that. And you went back in there and you did it. And you know, blah, blah, blah. That's not been historically factual with us.
Speaker 2:Right, it's been just the opposite. The shame of not doing it right.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, wait. It's not doing it right, it's doing it complete. I would say complete, not right. Okay, the floor is in the entire. If we're using an example of a room, there's floor in that entire room. Okay, the bedroom has a floor in it over there. Vacuuming entails vacuuming the floor, right? Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You're cracking me up with your raised eyebrows. You're like where's she going with this? So well, crudamola, now I don't even know where I was going with it. Can you help me get back?
Speaker 2:to where I was. I'm not sure, because I don't know where you were headed raised eyebrows.
Speaker 1:What was I saying?
Speaker 2:the thing is um, as it relates to shame, as, and so I'm somebody that can speak somewhat authoritatively on shame- yes, you can the, the shame of not doing it right oh, that's what we were talking about, right all right, it's complete.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I understand. I understand where you're coming from in in your mind.
Speaker 2:That's a logical, rational definition of vacuuming completely.
Speaker 1:The entire floor.
Speaker 2:Right, and for me, vacuuming completely is all the places that a foot can go right.
Speaker 1:Wow. So then, what does cleaning, or repenting, or coming clean with your journey, your recovery journey, that's all the places the heart can go, your betrayal that's different, but the shame of-. That's what we're relating it to though.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I get that. I mean mean, that's where the analogy breaks down a little bit, because it's not like breaking down my analogy it's not like we're picking the bed up and vacuuming the entire floor oh my word.
Speaker 1:Oh, y'all are about to hear some slapping going on.
Speaker 2:What I'm saying is, the difference is when you get over the shame of not doing it right and you just recognize that it's okay to miss something. It's okay to miss something and I don't have to. It isn't a commentary on my character to have missed those spots and the same in the relationship. I'm growing to the point where you can say something to me and I can actually receive it, because I've I have done a lot of work on the shame part and so I may still feel like I've let you down, but it doesn't go to shame, it's more of a resolve to do better. I don't know if that helps or not it does not.
Speaker 1:Well, it may help somebody out there listening, but me personally that doesn't help me, because here's what I see. I didn't get the full story. That's what I'm equating it to. Is you left out parts and pieces? You didn't vacuum the whole floor.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:now, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's where I was saying the vacuuming piece is. It's hard to.
Speaker 1:Well, it's kind of. I think it's a good analogy. I think it's a good analogy. Yeah you're not going to pick the bed up, but bed. But that bed has little spindle legs on it. You can easily vacuum around and get in the majority.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:The bedside tables are. That's a big space. Sure, you know you're talking eight, maybe six square feet of stuff under there, but it's not. There's stuff that you left out. That's what I'm getting to.
Speaker 2:That's the point I'm trying to make.
Speaker 1:And if you don't do a complete job of healing of digging in and running the vacuum under there to suck up whatever's under there to clean it out. You're not getting a complete job and your wife is being left with an incomplete picture. Gotcha, mm-hmm. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, see, now I get all yeah punchy. I'm getting punchy, john, I'm getting punchy.
Speaker 2:But that's where the communication comes in.
Speaker 1:Thank you, we suck at communicating. Well, we're improving you went off on it somewhere else I went off on it.
Speaker 2:I don't know what the heck that was. To recognize that it's okay to say those things, to say, hey, I am feeling or thinking these things. Right, just like on the hey, did you get this Because I know and you can say it in the emotional context, right, did you work through that? Shame from whatever event or whatever.
Speaker 1:What if we don't know about the event because you haven't shared it to, about? You haven't shared that piece, like a lot of your recovery journey is. Uh, really, you could write it. I could write it in like two sentences. That's how much you've shared with me. I've heard more doing this podcast than than I think at any other time.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:It is, isn't it? You'll share a thing out of a book, you'll share a podcast or a quote from a podcast. What you're feeling is yeah, you laugh over there. You can laugh out loud, you need laughing to the mic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:So they could hear you laughing. Well, that's the missing. That's the nightstands, that's vacuuming under the nightstands. Yeah, do you get the majority of the room? Okay. But when it comes to rebuilding our relationship and the intimacy that you are seeking, dude, you need to vacuum under the nightstands, you need to move those suckers and do a complete job, and that's where I're missing out is freaking solve, work towards that solution to get the whole room and you know, I get it that it's a process A lot of I say a lot of the time. I think you just want to fix, I just want to fix this, and you've said those words to me I just want to fix this and you can't. You don't have that power. Well, let me just ask I'll do it as an ask, because we're bumping up again against a time restraint here Do we have the power and authority to fix another person? No, why the heck did you try for all those years?
Speaker 2:That's a good question years?
Speaker 1:that's a good question, because we all know ain't, nobody can fix kim caps except the lord himself. And even he's going holy moly man, I created a pistol in her and, woo dog, she's spitfire. She's gonna tell it like it is. But you know what she? She loves deeply. I love deeply.
Speaker 1:And yeah, that's why I think we, as women, are created to do that, most of us. Now, there are a lot of hurts that we experience that cause us to put on our armadillo shell. To put on our armadillo shell and attempt to appear tough.
Speaker 2:We're really not and we think we fixed the problem by putting on that armadillo shell. Well, and I can assure you that it's not just the ladies that have that issue. And it's so much more culturally accepted for us to be, you know, the strong, silent type and not have emotions or feelings or any of the above. Um, you can't hurt me.
Speaker 1:Well, there are times, I will say, where it's appropriate to be strong and silent, and then there are times when it's appropriate.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:To be sensitive and open.
Speaker 2:And I'm learning.
Speaker 1:Read the room. Read the room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not my forte. I'm learning yeah, I'm a slow learner in some areas. Other areas not so much, but some areas emotional, iq, stuff yeah, I'm still a little behind the curve.
Speaker 1:D minus.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what that's an improvement.
Speaker 1:You were like below an F and I didn't know you could actually go below an F, but you, sir, accomplished that feat Swimmingly, by the way.
Speaker 2:I mean just with great fanfare.
Speaker 1:So, all right, y'all, boy, what a time together. We didn't solve a flippin' thing, nor did we fix anything. We didn't solve a flipping thing, nor did we fix anything. However, because number one, can we really fix any? You know, we can't fix each other. Can we even fix ourselves? Nope, I think we can work towards becoming better human beings If we allow, if we are Christians, we allow the Holy Spirit that lives inside of us to make the necessary changes, and it is not an overnight transformation, it is. God has that power. I think we are just yeah, god has that power. I think we are just yeah.
Speaker 1:I know, for me, I'm too. I'm quite stubborn and slow in learning, and if we just do the next right thing, and you know what, sometimes we don't even know what that is. But here's what I do know and I'm going to guess that it could be same for you out there, ladies I'm going to just speak to the ladies, and well, I'll speak to everybody, the guys too is that I want to be the best me that I can be, and that takes one incremental change at a time. One incremental change at a time. I'm not going to go out tomorrow and run a marathon, I would not go outside and run over to my garage To run a marathon would be crazy. I have to start walking, start walking and then eventually add some jogging in there and you know the process. You work up to it. It's not this.
Speaker 1:Saul to Paul conversion and even his wasn't an overnight thing. Yeah, was he blinded? Absolutely, but he had to go and stay with a dude and learn and work on his change. And so that I just want to encourage you guys that it is a process to find solutions for relationship healing. It's a process. There is no fixing in sight, because I'm not a project, john. You're not a project. We are all in process. We're all working to just just do better, be better, allow god to change us into who he's called us to be and, um, I will you have anything else to say before? I will leave you with the last word, john.
Speaker 2:All right. So you were saying, grow into who he made us to be, Reminds me of a line or a passage from a book called True Faced by John Lynch, and he said the butterfly, the caterpillar, doesn't have to do anything to be the butterfly other than what God created it to do, which is build the chrysalis and fight its way out. And one of the things that he said in the message that he had was if you tested a caterpillar and tested its DNA, you would find that the DNA is of a butterfly, even though at the moment it looks like a caterpillar. And so what I'm recognizing in me is that my DNA God changed it. He said he would right. That was the promise, and so I'm fighting out of the chrysalis of my flesh and my choices in life that have got us to this point, that have gotten me to this point to become that butterfly that God already says and sees me as Wow, that was good.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thanks for sharing, thanks for being willing to put up with my stuff and just walk, just walk. This journey it's, it's. I think it's good, I think it's good. So thanks y'all for joining us. Um, we sure appreciate the opportunity just to share our lives. And just remember, we are not professionals, we do not give advice, and anything that we say here on this podcast is strictly our own thinking, unless we actually quote somebody else and then it was their thinking. But it is not intended for medical or emotional or mental or spiritual advice, so that's our legalese. I say it every once in a while along in here. Thanks for joining us, guys, and until next time, god bless. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at wwwhurtmeetshealercom. Until next time, god bless, thank you.
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