Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Solving vs Fixing: Using Biblical Wisdom To Restore Broken Relationships
The journey from betrayal to healing isn't about quick fixes—it's about deep, transformative solutions that address root causes. In this heartfelt conversation, John and Kim continue their exploration of "solving versus fixing" by presenting six biblical principles that can guide couples through the aftermath of infidelity and betrayal trauma.
Through personal anecdotes, biblical wisdom, and practical application, John and Kim demonstrate that solving relationship problems requires more than surface-level fixes. The work is harder but infinitely more rewarding, as it builds relationships with "good, solid roots" rather than patching over fundamental issues that will inevitably resurface.
Whether you're navigating betrayal trauma or simply seeking healthier ways to resolve conflict in any relationship, this episode offers both compassionate understanding and concrete guidance for moving forward with integrity, wisdom, and hope.
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Kim Capps ministry that was created to help individuals and couples who are walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Welcome back y'all. Great to be back for another episode here in our journey of, oh my goodness, the life and times of John and Kim, actually the Hurt Meets Healer podcast, and we just welcome y'all. If you've been following us for a little bit, you might know that we've been discussing solving versus fixing as it relates to healing from betrayal and betrayal trauma and working to reconcile relationships. So we ended last episode with how we were kind of using these words semantic. You know the strategy. You didn't like strategy. It kind of felt like manipulation. And I like strategy the word strategy and techniques because it gives me a roadmap and I'm organized and I like that. And so today, john, by the way, welcome, how you doing, I'm good. Thanks, welcome back.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll get through more than two paragraphs of our show notes today. Maybe so you know I'm not. But it's okay if we don't it is what it is.
Speaker 1:We trust that the God in us will speak to the God in you.
Speaker 2:And on that particular point, if he is speaking to you, we'd love to hear from you, just to hear what you're getting out of this, uh, your thoughts, just give us some feedback oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:But please be nice, because I have a. I have a tender, tender heart. I'm fragile. I have a tender, tender heart. I'm fragile. I have a fragile, fragile mind. Oh, just yeah, we'd love to hear you. You can send us, shoot us an email at info. I-n-f-o at hurtmeetshealercom. We'd love to hear from you. So, continuing on with our strategies, John, I'm just going to use it because that's what these are.
Speaker 1:And it's just six steps. We're going to talk about biblical principles for resolving disputes in relationships, friendships, and if you are not wanting to hear about the Bible and what it has to say, then hey, you know what. That's your choice and we'll see you on the next round. We're still going to talk about God and the Bible in every episode. So there you go. So the first. Do you have anything to say before I present the techniques? I don't know that they're techniques.
Speaker 2:I love your word. I mean, these are biblical principles, and that, to me, is more solid than any strategy or technique.
Speaker 1:I'm going to just run down a rabbit hole for just a second. How many times we're about to be married? Lord willing, in the creek, don't rise. 36 years in May, well, actually, probably when this is being released somewhere around in there May 27th, yeah, so you might be hearing this near the time of our 36th anniversary. Our 36th anniversary. We have spent, I think, more time and we didn't even discuss. We would argue about words. We wouldn't come to understanding. Do you have any thoughts on the why? I always ask what's the what, the what, or what's the why behind the what? Any thoughts on that I have some thoughts.
Speaker 1:Would you care?
Speaker 2:to share. On my side of the equation, it has been a matter of patience and willingness. I wanted to be heard more than I was willing to hear.
Speaker 1:Wow Okay.
Speaker 2:So as I've grown in understanding that I need to seek understanding, I have become more willing to listen, and that's a skill that I'm still growing in and still have a lot of room to grow in. But I am at least opening my heart and my ears to understanding way more than I ever have, because I genuinely am tired of arguing the semantics of something, when the more we are able and willing to sit with each other and hear each other and discover that we're not as far apart on some of these issues as we think we are, sometimes because of the different language that we have, that has attachments. That inflames me, for example, or irritates me or somehow violates me, and it's just. You know it's a strategy or a technique.
Speaker 2:To you and to me it's control and manipulation, and so the more I have become willing to set my issues aside and listen and actually seek understanding, actually seek understanding.
Speaker 1:The more I've been able to hear you and actually listen. Wow, I look forward to more times when you hear me and listen. It's a new thing around these here parts. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, last episode you said you wanted something new.
Speaker 1:There you go, boom.
Speaker 2:Here we are.
Speaker 1:Something new, right on, all right. So let's dive on into this. Biblical principles for resolving disputes in relationships. Number one seek peace and reconciliation. Now I want to just step back for a second and say to women out there if you are in an abusive situation, reconciliation. There are signs that it's okay to reconcile. There are signs that and symptoms, if you will, that it is not safe for you to reconcile. So I want to start there, just put that out there. If you are not safe, please seek safety first. This is for ladies and gentlemen who are doing their work. This is for those couples who are both in intensive counseling, coaching, and are working towards mending and healing. They're not only their, their, their own selves, but they're working towards healing their relationships. So, please, this is not a one size fits all strategy or, if you will, so the if, if you are in a safe relationship, then these might help. So seek peace and reconciliation. And Matthew 5.23, in that verse, those two verses Jesus instructs that if you're offering a gift at the altar and remember someone has something against you, leave the gift and reconcile with them first, then return to offer it, and it highlights the priority of mending relationships over religious acts.
Speaker 1:Romans and I have my own take on all of these. Obviously, romans 12, 18 says if it is possible as far as it depends on you Now see, there's a little if this then that, if, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. That's not going to work with everyone, right? If it depended on me, absolutely, we would live at peace, right? But I can't control anyone else and neither can you. But it encourages us to take personal responsibility to pursue peace as much as we can. And again I'm going to go back to if you are not safe, seek safety first. That has to be the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1:And I remember in our, in these last six years of oh my goodness, this battle we've been in. I had to leave this house and live elsewhere for a season because it was not safe to be here, and you know what. That's okay, it is what it is. There were still lies going on. There were still lies going on. It was unsafe for me to be here and to be in proximity. My body was so, oh my gosh, just revved up. I remember I would be in the she-shack and just praising the Lord, I was exercising and just, you know, living my life and I would come over here. We would meet out back by the pool and, oh my gosh, my body tensed when I would be around you, and for good reason, you know.
Speaker 1:There was a an air of unsafe, there was a major distrust and it was just a season of you know, I can, I had chosen I would, I could be kind and because that's who I wanted to be I wasn't all the time, but I was working to be better in that and I honestly didn't know if reconciliation was going to happen, if it was even possible, because I can't control what you say, think, do any of that. So I knew with me, yeah, I, if there could come a point where safety could happen, then I knew possibly reconciliation could happen. What's your take on this number one, john?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's interesting that John. Well, I think it's interesting that Jesus tells us that if we're at the altar and we remember that somebody has something against us, now there's another one coming up, that kind of goes a different direction. Now there's another one coming up, that kind of goes a different direction. But it's interesting that that is where he starts. This whole conversation is if somebody has something against me and I know about it, what I'm reading in this is that it's my responsibility at that point to go attempt to resolve it sure what if the other person won't have it like we talked about last?
Speaker 2:episode then you weren't having it then romans, 12, 18 kicks right in but but also matthew 18 comes in, you know, oh, in that hole gonna get down there right. And that's what I was referencing. But there's a process right, there's a principle here.
Speaker 1:There's a strategy. I can't believe. You said the word and a technique but there's a process that Jesus tells us.
Speaker 2:And where does that process start? It starts in me, if you remember that somebody has something against you, right? So the process starts in me. That's humility, that's repentance, that's contrition, all of those things start in me and that's where Jesus says it has to start.
Speaker 1:Which brings us to number two. The second principle is approach with humility and gentleness. Ephesians 4, 2, and 3 says Be completely humble and gentle, patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace, which, translated into layman's term, is something like disputes should be handled with kindness and patience, not pride or anger. And Proverbs 15.1 says a gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. And the tone of communication matters greatly in de-escalating conflict.
Speaker 1:And I will tell y'all I have practiced this, I've actually tested it and it is the truth. I put the Lord to the test, I put the Word of God to the test and it is true. It is true If, when I get riled up if you will a little punchy is what I like to call it you get riled up. But if I can remain calm most of the time I don't want to say all the time, but most of the time if I can remain calm most of the time I don't want to say all the time, but most of the time if I can remain calm, yeah, let me think about this and make sure that this is true, because you can get. I don't want to say you, but I already did.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's true. I mean, we're talking about our relationship here, even if I have.
Speaker 1:well, I'll just say it this way I have remained calm in communicating things and it didn't matter my tone, because what you have communicated to me is that you didn't like the words that I said. At times, absolutely yeah like the words that I said, it mattered the tone, yeah, and so, for the most part, tone can matter.
Speaker 2:Tone's huge to me Greatly, yeah Well and did you know that we communicate?
Speaker 1:it was like a high, high percentage non-verbally, like high, like in that almost I want to say 93% is non-verbal communication.
Speaker 2:Only seven is spoken word which includes tone the facial expression, your body set. You know all of those things.
Speaker 1:Rolling your eyes, right yeah, pursing your lips, taking a big sigh, whatever it is, and I have noticed a lot. My spidey senses go on high alert when we have a deep conversation, our conversation on deep things. All right, we're going to have to pick up the pace, John, we can't be going slow. What's number three? I see you looking at it.
Speaker 2:Forgive as God forgives. And Colossians 3.13,. Bear with each other and forgive one another. Any of you has a grievance against forgive as the Lord forgave you, and that's the big issue here is that forgiveness is the root, is the beginning of all of it, Because, as a guy that's held and had to work through a lot of bitterness, nothing really good happens until you can really forgive. Your relationship with God is impaired because unless you forgive, then God's not going to forgive me. If I don't forgive, then God says it. I mean, that's the craziest part. He says it directly I'm going to forgive you the same way that you forgive others. He says it over and over again.
Speaker 2:And then in Matthew 18, when Peter asked how often to forgive, and Jesus says 70 times 7,. That's suggesting that you're not keeping count and we just forgive an unlimited amount, the way Jesus forgives us. The way Jesus forgives us. And you know, I think about this. I've worked with a lot of folks in debt and there's this saying in debt, and it is how much debt do most people have? It is a mountain of debt, right? Well, what happens when debt is forgiven? The mountain is wiped away. There's no more mountain. And Jesus says right in the Lord's Prayer.
Speaker 1:Forgive us, our debts in the same way that we forgive those who have debts against us. Now I'm going to throw a little wrench in this and perhaps cause your brain to come to a screeching halt, because forgiving as God forgives, okay, yeah, we forgive, we don't hold it over the person any longer. However, we're also charged to not be ignorant and to not be foolish, which means to be wise, and that to me well and I have it somewhere, I'll have to find my notes that forgiving does not necessarily lead to reconciliation. Reconciliation takes two people doing the work, and sometimes the pain is so deep and so has just gone on for way too long that what if I'll just throw a what if? What if I can forgive you but I can't live with you, because every time there's just too many memories, too many triggers, it's physically hurting me, making me sick, and it happens. It happens to a lot of ladies and, I'm sure, some men who are in the betrayed spouse wagon as well. What happens then?
Speaker 2:I wish I had a good answer for that. I really don't. I recognize that the application of God's word and the reality of life and the reality of life, um, most of the intersection of of many of those things, are way beyond my capacity to understand how it works.
Speaker 1:Hey, that's fair and honest, thanks.
Speaker 2:I mean I know what the Bible says and I'm just struggling in my own self to forgive and not hold bitterness and not take up offense. I'm not going to pretend to try to give anybody else some mandate that it has to be this way because that's the way I understand it. I've been down that road. I mean I'm learning a lot of these things from my own painful failures in trying to force you or others to see things my way.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and I'm really and that's a journey that I'm on is to lay those kinds of offenses down and just recognize that there has to be so much grace applied, while at the same time not compromising on what God says and what Scripture really says about these issues.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Well, jesus had very healthy boundaries. He was the perfect son of God and he didn't hang out with the Pharisees, the high highfalutin, religious dudes who were preaching all this stuff and putting burdens on people but not living that way. So which leads us to the next, our next point, number four. Confront directly and lovingly which Jesus did a lot of that, and a lot of people repented and turned and accepted the salvation that he gave to them In Matthew 18, 15 through 17,. If someone sins against you, go to them privately first. If they don't listen, take two or one or two others along and, if unresolved, involve the church, and then here's the kicker point. Here's the kicker point If he or she won't accept the church's decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector. Wow.
Speaker 2:And what does that mean? So what does that mean?
Speaker 1:What does that mean?
Speaker 2:Practically.
Speaker 1:Treat that person as a pagan. That doesn't mean you hate them or anything like that. To me that means you have healthy boundaries. That means guess what I cannot. I am going to choose for myself if I'm going to be in relationship with you or not. Because you are unhealthy. You will not seek repentance and forgiveness and reconciliation. So you know I wish you well. Go with God. Well, you're not going with God, so go your own way, right.
Speaker 2:And as I've studied that passage, that particular section of that to me and some of the commentaries that I've read on that passage talk about. Jesus said treat them as a pagan or a tax collector. What he meant was okay, you've removed them from the church, which means now they're lost and you should seek their salvation just like you would the lost. Just like you would the lost. And there's a. If you look in 2 Corinthians 2, and it starts in 7, it goes to 11, but he's talking about the restoration of this same type person. This is the actual guy that had his mother-in-law as his wife. If you go back through that whole passage, this is that guy. Instead of more punishment, what he needs most is your encouragement through your gracious display of forgiveness. So that was the guy they put out of the church. They turned him over to Satan so that his body would be destroyed but his soul would be Well, apparently in 2 Corinthians he comes back. He's repented. Paul's talking about we're okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you're doing over there.
Speaker 2:I'm moving my hands too much for my space. Paul's talking about restoring him gently, so that whole passage, and when Jesus talks about treating them as a tax collector or a pagan, it is to turn them over to their selves so that they can be saved.
Speaker 1:So it's a yeah, A lot of guys don't, and gals don't repent, though they don't.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:It took a long time yeah, it took a long time in our relationship for things like that to begin turning around. It's not a okay. We're just going to forgive you and you go on your merry little way. I'm not going to condone somebody's sin, and nor am I going to participate in it and become an enabler.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That's not what that's saying at all Correct. It's loving, you know, in love. Hey, you know what? Because I love you, peace out I'm not going to, and because I love me, I'm not going to be in relationship with you. Now, if you choose to change and be different and treat me with respect and consideration, I'm open to talk and see where that leads, but I'm not just going to welcome you back in. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1:A long time of abuse and there has to be a marked, a huge change in behavior.
Speaker 2:Let me just make it. It goes back to the Romans passage. As much as it depends on you, right?
Speaker 1:Right, right. So, and we talked about lovingly. So that brings us to number five Love as the foundation and 1 Corinthians 13, known as the love passage. Love is patient and kind and not easily angered, keeps no records of wrongs, and applying this to disputes means we prioritize the other person's good over winning the argument. Now I could almost say it with a show of hands here.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, I am the worst.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh oh yeah. I can recall so many times of just going whatever. If you want to win, you win. You're wrong, but go ahead. Just go ahead, have at it, I don't care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I'm horrible at this. I still struggle with it, although I think I'm better than I ever have been at it, you are. But oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:At least we can sit here and even have these conversations and go through this stuff and talk about it with reasonable calmness and care and consideration for the other person there. Yeah, and then, of course, in John 13, where Jesus says love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. And that's the kicker, because love should guide all of our interactions, even in conflict, even when we are just mad as all get out, and even you know if we're triggered or whatever. If we can, if I can just speak for me, if I can bring myself to the point that go, you know what God's crazy. In love with me, god even loves John at this time.
Speaker 1:I don't like him, I don't understand why I don't like him right now, but God still loves him. So because of that, I'm going to choose to work to love him too and behave as though I love him in this situation, and maybe that will help resolve the conflict. So yeah, love is the foundation.
Speaker 1:And then number six avoid gossip and slander. This is huge. Proverbs 17.9 says whoever would foster love covers over an offense, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends. So instead of taking your disputes to other people and blaming your spouse or the devil made me do it, or whatever we're encouraged to keep the private things private to preserve the relationship. Be discreet. Do you have any comments on that one?
Speaker 2:Been horribly guilty on this one too, but it doesn't help. But it doesn't help. And I think if there's a caveat in there, it would be if you're working with a true counselor, there's a place to unload some of these things, place to unload some of these things, process them and get them out in that environment. But that's really the only caveat that I would add to that. But don't go into it as a and as just a blame session. Go seeking an answer in yourself or for yourself of how do I okay, this is frustrating me, how do I respond? Better, rather than just venting that frustration and blaming all the problems on somebody else, on your spouse, go seeking a solution. This is what happened. This is how I feel about it.
Speaker 1:But you have to be honest about the actual situation of what happened. You can't go and just lie.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Well, you can.
Speaker 2:And what I'm learning is even the hard stuff, the more I really study the principles and I'm working through a book called the Bait of Satan right now- by John Bevere. John Bevere and I've read it before, but I'm working through it again.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe the first place to go is to the person who offended you. That's what.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Number four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so.
Speaker 1:Go to them privately first.
Speaker 2:And you know, learning how to do that and and seeking understanding of okay, I, you know this circumstance happened and I feel this way about it, not in an accusatory manner, you know. This is the. These are the facts of the situation as I saw it. This is how I feel about it. Again, this is all on me. I'm not blaming you for making me feel this way or doing anything wrong. It's just this is what I saw happen or experienced. This is what it made me feel, or this is how I walked away feeling and thinking about it. What was the? You know? Then start asking questions, you know, if necessary, but just to clear that air and gosh, I've been horrible about that I will absolutely confirm that.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not a conflict guy, I'm a conflict avoider.
Speaker 1:Which is funny. It's interesting you say that because you're a conflict creator, so a conflict avoider. To hear you say I'm a conflict avoider, I don't like conflict, why do you create so much? That's a great question. There you go, I mean, but again it's you know it's I.
Speaker 2:What I'm discovering is that it takes it more effort to run from the conflict. You have to create different conflicts to avoid the conflicts you're trying to avoid.
Speaker 1:And that's not, and that's not, that's not good either right, yeah, well, and I will say from um, yeah, boy, I have a lot to say on that. However, I'm going to not, because it will not be productive to this conversation, it will not help, so I will just keep that to myself. But I've been on the receiving end of gossip and slander. It is not fun. It is very, very hurtful, very harmful and it absolutely causes a a big rip between people. And so if you are one that likes to run out and tell the next person, I really want to caution you to stop it and not do that. Go to the person you have a problem. Go to the person, say hey, you know, when you did this, I thought this and then I felt this, and what I really want is this, and it really is as easy as that and then just leave it on their doorstep and let them choose for themselves how they want to respond.
Speaker 1:Remember, we can't control other people. So all these six principles here really give us great strategies for addressing disputes. It really leads us to do this with humility and directness and a heart for reconciliation that's rooted in love and forgiveness and more about restoring harmony and reflecting God's desire for unity and collaboration among his kiddos. So all these six steps that we just went through lean interestingly, since we're part three of solving versus fixing, they actually lean more towards solving. You know, when you look at Matthew 18, jesus outlines a process, a strategery, a process of confrontation and restoration. Not just a band-aid, not just a patch.
Speaker 2:And not just confrontation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's with love. So the goal is reconciliation, which requires understanding, and if you're unwilling to listen to another person, to gain understanding, to hear where they're coming from, none of this will happen.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It just won't. You have to be humble and kind and be willing to listen to gain understanding, and so it's maybe not seeing everything as an argument. That would sure be beneficial, I know, between us, if we could approach each other with humility and kindness and not just see everything as an argument.
Speaker 2:That's one of the principles that in conflict resolution circles, one of the big things they always say is attack the issue, not the person. Right, Yep.
Speaker 1:So, that said, fixing also has its place. Sometimes a quick resolution is all that's needed for some minor issue. You know, a small misunderstanding that doesn't warrant deep analysis. Proverbs 17 gives a nice idea of covering an offense, suggests there's wisdom in letting some things go rather than overanalyzing them. But for reoccurring or recurring or significant disputesving really seems closer to the biblical heart, prioritizing growth and unity over short-term peace. And it's harder, solving is harder, but it's so much richer it builds strong relationships.
Speaker 1:We get to the root of the problem. That would so be nice. We could get to the root of a lot of our problems. Fixing is easier, you know, sometimes it's even practical, but it risks leaving cracks that widen later. So in practice, it's about discernment, knowing when a Band-Aid will do and when surgery is required. And, man, I think. Personally, I think it's better to work together to solve mine, yours and our problems and issues. I mean isn't finding solutions. I think it's fun and adventuresome and we work together to achieve a common goal. That's best, or better than what we can attain by ourselves.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to give you the last word, john, as we close out this episode well, in all this, you know, there's a couple of uh sayings in the business world that really feed into this. There's no I in team, right, and to your last point, team, the acronym together. Everyone achieves more, and so that's, you know. The summary on that is some of these things will never be fixed, they'll never be solved, because if you like chinese and I like barbecue, that's that's probably never going to change, right, and so that's not something that can be solved. But but we can decide that we can go to a Chinese barbecue place.
Speaker 2:There's a way around, there's a way together through any of the issues, right, no matter how difficult they are. And I made it, you know, very light there. But we're talking about really hard and heavy hurts and we're never going to get around them and frankly, I don't think we ever get through them on our own. I agree, and so it happened and it'll never be solved. But we can walk through the pain of it together and solve or at least correct the roots that led to that deformed tree that grew and make sure that the tree that we're attempting to grow here in a new us has good, solid roots, because we've gone and fixed and solved and corrected and eradicated those bad roots.
Speaker 1:Yep Thanks. Thanks for that and y'all thanks for joining us today. It's a privilege and an honor to just share our stuff with you. If you are enjoying this and getting something out of it, please send us a note. Info at hertmeetshealercom. And until next time, y'all take care. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at wwwhurtmeetshealercom. Until next time, god bless.
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