Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
The State of Our Union
What does healing look like after decades of sexual addiction and betrayal? In this raw and vulnerable episode, we pull back the curtain on our own marriage journey, sharing our "State of the Union" after 36+ years together.
The transformation we've experienced in just the past few months feels almost miraculous. We recently took two international trips that would have previously been minefields of triggers and conflict. Instead, we discovered a level of emotional intimacy we'd never known before—proving that real change is possible even after years of devastating hurt.
John opens up about his breakthrough realization: that the intimacy he'd been desperately seeking through sexual addiction could actually be fulfilled through genuine connection, mutual care, and shared experiences. This shift represents years of hard-won growth and therapeutic work that's dramatically altered our relationship dynamics.
For those walking through betrayal trauma, Kim speaks directly to the most painful aspect—the lies. "It's the lying that hurt worse than your actual affair," she reveals, addressing both the betrayed and those keeping secrets. "The best gift you can give your spouse if you want reconciliation is to tell the truth." This message comes from someone who endured countless discovery days and trickle disclosures over many years.
We don't sugarcoat the journey. Trust rebuilding after decades of deception is an uphill climb. Kim describes herself as "hesitantly hopeful" while maintaining strong boundaries. Yet we're both experiencing our relationship at its healthiest point ever—proof that with professional help, commitment to truth, and the courage to face our deepest wounds, healing is possible.
Whether you're the betrayed partner seeking hope or the one who's caused harm and wants to change, this episode offers both compassion and challenge. Connect with us at hurtmeetshealer.com to continue the conversation and find resources for your own healing journey.
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Kim Capps ministry that was created to help individuals and couples who are walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Hey y'all, and welcome back. We are back for episode 23 of our very first season here on the Hurt Meets Healer podcast. John is here with me. How you doing, john?
Speaker 2:I am doing pretty well, thank you.
Speaker 1:You're so welcome. It sounded like you might have had something to add to that. Do you have anything else to add?
Speaker 2:No, just recovering from travel and getting ready for more and excited about all of it Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, we are going to do a little pivot. I hope it doesn't throw you off your rocker that I had. I think we had billed this episode as talking about healthy detachment. I'm going to pivot off of that for just this episode. We're going to push that one to the next episode, and today's episode is titled State of the Union, and the reason I chose that is that we have had a lot going on this year. There have been some great positive changes in our relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And we're just at a point where this is a season of remembrance for me anyway of a lot of hurt. This was the season from May to the end of the year, pretty much.
Speaker 2:May to April.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or six consecutive years of a lot of hurt, of a lot of hurt, a lot of many traumas, many trickle-out disclosures, just death by a thousand, a million stab wounds, and so I just want to speak to that a little bit too. Maybe it'll help someone out there who is going through that same season of what? What can I do about this? Is this always going to be this way? And that always, word is a is a big buzzword. Will it get better? Will I get better? Is it always going to hurt this bad? So that has been really rolling through my mind these past few days. We just got back from a big trip overseas, I think for the maybe for the first time ever we traveled out of the country. Well, no, because we did a trip before this when we celebrated actually celebrated an anniversary our 36th anniversary, wedding anniversary in May and we went out of the country for that. And these two trips of traveling internationally in the past, that would have triggered a lot of angst and anxiety, and there was some there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had a few moments right, well, just the whole traveling getting through security, getting through the mechanics of travel or the realities of it.
Speaker 2:Where?
Speaker 1:they're scrutinizing you, you know, are they gonna let us into the country? Oh, do they know who we are? Well, they let us back into america. Holy moly, they. You know how's the flight. How are we going to endure a? The first long one was about seven hours. The one coming back was, oh my goodness, 10 hours. It was, oh, it was, a tester, for sure I would call it a butt whooping yeah, it was rough.
Speaker 1:It was rough. There were so many um we had opportunities. That, I think, proved out where we are right now right.
Speaker 2:Well, certainly from the past, you know, looking at it through the lens of the past, there were many opportunities that I saw in, not only in the moment but in in reflection, that I saw where it would have gone sideways in the past. You know, those scenarios would have absolutely blown up a big portion of either the day or the trip itself. And you know, we had, you know, a few of those. We had many of those opportunities and a few of those, maybe flare-ups is the right word, friction, if you will. But it never got to conflict, it just it stopped at friction because I think we recognized where we were headed and neither one of us really appreciate or enjoy that particular journey and breathe and communicate and be empathetic with each other and hear and see each other in a different way than we ever have. That was my reflection on. You know, all of that journey was was just different Both, both Mexico and the other trip was just a different, and I thought the last trip was even better than Mexico.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll agree. Yeah, we got the opportunity to go to Denmark. We spent several days in Copenhagen, spent a day over in Sweden and then flew on to Iceland, and I mean just a fantastic trip. And for me I knew this was an opportunity for um I mean not growth is not the right word but um new experiences right right that we can make new memories. We have the chance. This is an opportunity. We can take and seize that opportunity or we can poo-poo it which we and stay in the old patterns, right.
Speaker 2:Um, and that was one of the things I was really excited about us and what we did, was we actually forged new ground in adventuring, rather than our typical you know, do a couple of things and then go sit in the hotel all day and yeah, but why would we do? Why exactly, but I?
Speaker 1:I can, can tell you from my side it was the rub, the constant friction that we had between us all those years.
Speaker 2:Competing for dominance, or I wasn't competing for dominance.
Speaker 1:Necessarily, I wanted safety and trust and it was not occurring for me during those years.
Speaker 2:And so because you, I could not trust you and I knew that I wanted to so bad during those years and it would prove out that, no, I couldn't right, trust you and I thought it was there were some for at least for me, in my experience it was an extraordinarily intimate trip and I mean that was off the charts for me, the best trip ever yeah, I mean to, and I will.
Speaker 1:I'm proud of you for the work. Y'all can't see me crying, thank goodness, because, man, I'm an ugly crier. You've put in hard work and please don't give up. Please don't quit, because you'll never fully arrive. We're not fully healed and whole until heaven, but you've worked hard. I don't know you can share what clicked in your head this year. That has, because it's been this year. It didn't click before, like March, april-ish, it's been clicking and it's been this year.
Speaker 2:It didn't click before, like march, april, ish, it's been clicking. It's just it has taken a long time to get around some of my own um issues and being willing to own them and address them, and for me, what I discovered on that trip is the intimacy that I've been looking for, that I only thought was available sexually. We had exactly that on the trip and it was so amazing and I'm responding to your don't quit statement and that is what drives, that is what encourages me to know that we can have that experience together and it was just so great. I want to keep building on that and I don't want to go backwards. I don't want that any other life, and so that that's been. I mean, it was just an amazing time, um, and we overdid it a couple of days, but it was worth it overdid it walking, or oh yeah, just well that last day in iceland, when oh yeah we had and gosh.
Speaker 2:I was so proud of you for trying all of those foods that were definitely out of your comfort zone, oh my.
Speaker 1:Atlanta yeah.
Speaker 2:But we had walked. We did a three-hour food tour where we walked around Reykjavik and sampled all these different foods, and in the middle of our tour tour we got a text message from one of our hosts and and he said, hey, do y'all want to go to the lava show with us?
Speaker 2:and we looked at each other and we're like, yeah, okay as long as we don't have to walk like two miles and so so we agreed to do that, but by the time we got back to the hotel from the walking tour, we had a about a 10 minute turnaround.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if that and I was looking forward to a little bit of an afternoon, you know, to ourselves and so but we did it and it was such a cool experience. The the lava tour or the lava show was a cool experience, and the time with with our host and some new friends was also amazing.
Speaker 1:And then we had to walk back we walked a mile and a half we walked back to the hotel and had another 10 minute turnaround before the final farewell dinner.
Speaker 2:So it was just a crazy day. And then we had to pack and leave at three the next morning or four the next morning. We had to get up at three, so that was a little bit extra and but at the end of the day that was one of those times when it could have gone sideways pretty easily and it didn't.
Speaker 1:Correct and I will say from my education you can speak to this because you were addicted. The addiction overshadowed everything in the past, Everything that we did, every trip we went on, it was hey, we're going to a hotel, we got to have sex. Hey, we're going, the sun is shining, we got to have sex. And if I don't get sex, life sucks. And that has changed remarkably with you in just the past few months. It's I don't know like again I you'll have to speak to what has shifted is it? Is there like a point in time? Is there?
Speaker 2:I wish, I wish I could, I wish there was something I could really point to to give somebody out there maybe some hope or some direction or whatever. But it literally just has been this thing that I want to focus on you and what love I can really give you, how I can really serve you and not what I can get from you. Really give you how I can really serve you and not what I can get from you, and so I just want to enjoy being with you and that, and no, with no barriers and no expectations. And that has not been the case over the years. It has always been, and I and I've you could talk to my counselor on this, because he and I have had many conversations about this.
Speaker 2:I don't want to be that way, and so it it finally, I finally came to the point where I'm, like you know, as much as I enjoy sex and I mean, let's be clear, I I do, but that's not the reason, right, it's great when and if it happens, but it's not the reason that I do anything anymore. It used to be the reason that I did everything, which is fascinating to me because it's I mean.
Speaker 1:I guess, you could have these long sessions, but I ain't got time for that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:For a short little thing there Right but the.
Speaker 2:Thing is it was the intimacy of the whole experience that I was after, the whole experience that I was after, and I didn't ever understand that I could have that intimacy without the sex. Yeah, sex is not intimacy. I do know that.
Speaker 1:now that's the way you were seeking through sex, right? Okay, I just want to make sure that's clear.
Speaker 2:I finally was able to get that need, the emotional intimacy need. I'm learning how to really get that fulfilled without sex, just being with you, having fun together, enjoying each other, and you know that is very fulfilling and satisfying. It's not this, you know, it's not everything, but what I'm saying by that is it's not like I can take it or leave it. On the sex side I'm still interested, but but it's it. What I've really discovered is that it's not a need, it is a desire, but I don't.
Speaker 1:To me, it's a culmination of the intimacy that we experience outside the consideration of each other. Me freaking, giving you your injection last night things like that, caring for each other.
Speaker 2:Here's one of the things that really spoke to me, and that was we were in Copenhagen.
Speaker 1:Sorry, that was my elbow hitting my.
Speaker 2:And you brought up your interest in sex and that was extraordinarily meaningful to me. It didn't have to go anywhere, but just the fact that you said that you were interested. We never quite made the time or found the time, but but it it it. It's hard for to even describe how gratifying that was to just have that conversation and I and the crazy thing was I didn't come away from that conversation like I would have been in the past, all of a sudden determined to figure out how to have sex. But it was a very intimate moment. So that was big to me, both in your willingness to have that conversation and in how I was able to respond and not turn it into something.
Speaker 1:That builds trust. It's like a healing balm over this, what I have felt for three decades or more of a requirement. It's a requirement, and a lot of the religious institutions teach that, and that's not it at all Right. That's not. Why would God do that to us? And my premise is he wouldn't.
Speaker 2:It's a gift, exactly. And he gave it to us as a gift, and you can't demand a gift Right and a gift Right and you know gifts are made to be given, not demanded or extorted.
Speaker 1:It's not a gift.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, gifts are made to be given.
Speaker 1:Right. So where would you say we are right now, july, whatever it is that we're recording this 5th? Where would you say that we sit, as far as our relationship, compared to where we were even a year ago?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, miles ahead ago. Oh gosh, um miles ahead. I mean I'm I feel, you know, and maybe it's think, but I actually feel closer to you than I ever have and the just the, the intimacy that I'm able to receive and share with you on a regular basis, that I only ever thought was possible sexually, is just off the charts for me. And I mean there's still things that you know, there's still hard conversations and hard topics and all that. But for me that's the big thing is, I think we're miles ahead of where we ever have been ever, not just a year ago, but ever.
Speaker 1:Sure, what would you? I'm trying to ask this right question because boundaries came up in my mind of Did me setting healthy boundaries around what I would accept in my life? Did that play a role or help you in any way to make some pivotal steps?
Speaker 2:steps that's. That's a hard one because I have I really have issues, if you will, with most boundary conversations, because it's it feels like control, and so what I really figured out was the, the boundary conversations that we've had helped me understand expectations, what, what speaks to you, what, what um encourages you, what discourages you, what you know, those kinds of things, because for me it's not about performance, it's about being correct and so.
Speaker 1:So hang on, I I'm going to interrupt you here. The um, because that control word, when it is attributed it to me, um, my hair, the hair on the back of my neck, kind of stands up a little bit. Hang on a second. I know you're gonna speak um, let me ask, let me, or give me just a second here to get my words out. The I think that was a big rub for us for many years was dude. I'm not going.
Speaker 1:Health does not mesh with unhealth and I will not be a part of a relationship where one person is lying. And so if you would like to lie, that's your choice. But I'm going to choose to back away from you because you continue to lie to me. That's a boundary, that's a healthy boundary for me. It was in no way controlling you. You're free to do whatever you want. So what part of boundaries do you equate to control? You said it feels like control. I would say you think you're being controlled or someone's attempting to control you and you feel angry or peeved or whatever. The emotions are Rebellious, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what I was trying to say. My paradigm was skewed in that regard for a long time, and so the whole boundaries thing always struck me as a control mechanism, and so I had to grow through that.
Speaker 2:It makes sense, and I fumbled with boundaries at the beginning I had no idea and I had such a control paradigm in my own life that I didn't ever really recognize how controlling that I was. But I knew that I didn't want to be controlled, and so I I was hitting it from both ways. I was blind to my own control for a long time, but then I was so adamant not to be controlled, and that was one of the accusations that I had against you for a long time. Is you're trying to control me and so?
Speaker 1:That's probably why I push back so much when you say the word control Right, because that was not at all my paradigm. I was safety-seeking, and so that's probably why I push back so much when you say the word control right, because that was not and and not at all my paradigm.
Speaker 2:I was safety seeking that was my paradigm, that I had to work through gotcha and and so it's hard when you know, you're told that. I was told that for over 30 years right, and so that's where, for me, it, you know, it's, it's all these little things that just kept falling into place, that I would, I would face one issue, and then that would open my eyes to another one, and then, and I'm slow, I don't know what else to say. I'm slow.
Speaker 1:That's fair.
Speaker 2:But I am gritty in that, you know I keep getting up swinging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll give you that, you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll give you that.
Speaker 1:You do, man, you have some tenacity in you that just doesn't quit. I guess we both do. I mean, I had to really detach many, many, many times, move to the she shack, get space, allow you to rebel and do whatever you're going to do, cause I couldn't control it and it. What I came to realize pretty early on was that me even attempting to control and I don't even know that that's the right word made it worse.
Speaker 1:If I you know I can give him this information, not to try to. I was wanting you to stop lying, stop hurting me, and so safety seeking is huge when you're in this trauma state, and that's I had to, unfortunately. I was in that state for years and looking for any daylight, any kind of light of safety in you, and it was so painful to not see any a lot of the time and to have what you were doing to me thrown back. Basically, darvode, deny attack, reverse victim offender. It's that hurt a lot and I hear from ladies that I work with many times over.
Speaker 1:It's the lies, it's the lying. If he would come clean, we could get it all out on the table and hopefully work this thing through, but it's the continued lying that hurt worse than your actual affair. I could wrap my head around the affair. It's the lying, the hit, how you could look me in the eye and lie for so long years before we even got married. The denial, that's what hurt me the worst, I think Now I know that is. And those wounds yeah, they're still there. Yeah, they're still there. So there's a big D-Day coming up for us it would be the second of this year, not this year Of what would be the beginning of many, many D-Days Uncountable D-Days. And men if you are I'll just speak to the offender men or women if you want to salvage your relationship, please, please, please, tell the truth. Tell that the truth will set you free. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and it's, it is. And it's hard and it's scary and you think you're going to lose everything, and you might, but you don't really have anything if you don't have the truth. And it's hard and it's frightening, but at some point you have to man up and have the courage to face what you've done and trust that love, at the end of the day, is stronger than evil. And it may not, you know. Your relationship may or may not work, but love, always love is stronger than evil, and what we have to do, what I had to do, was give love a chance, and love and fear don't coexist. Don't forget so. If you're living in fear, then you're not a free to love or be loved, and it's. It is. One of the hardest things that I've ever had to do is to let go of all that and just basically hurdle myself into empty space, believing that love would win would win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is from my side. Here it is. I felt so disrespected, so dishonored, Less than yeah, left out, Disregarded, Abandoned and a bunch of other. Look at that feelings wheel.
Speaker 2:Just stay on that left side over there, yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah. And so I ask so many times why? What was the purpose of continuing to lie? Where did that get you? What was the purpose? Why continue to lie? Where is the benefit? Why continue to lie? Where is the benefit that you think you're not going to hurt your spouse? You hurt your spouse every time you tell them no.
Speaker 1:Because let me tell you something, ladies and gentlemen, they already know. They may not know that, they know that, they know, but there is an inkling, there is. And if they are Christian and they have the Holy Spirit of the living God in them, he knows y'all. And if you think for a second, he's not going to tell on you. Oh, bless your heart, Bless your heart, and we say that a lot down here in the South. Bless your heart, he will. And the best thing you could ever do, the best gift yeah, it will hurt like the dickens for a season, for a while the best gift you can give your spouse if you want reconciliation and restoration in your marriage is to tell the truth, To come completely clean with everything.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:No holding back, and muster up the courage, get a friend to go with you, get a counselor, get a coach. But, oh my goodness, we are where we are, I believe Because, well, a lot of work that I've done, but it really rested honestly on you, john. It really did. There was nothing I could do. I can heal, I will heal, apart from you. We want our relationship to be restored and to be reconciled to each other.
Speaker 1:You have to continue to tell the truth Right, become an honest human being, become transparent and when there's hiddenness guess what? Red flag. When there's shadiness, red flag. When there's inaccuracy of descriptions or words, red flag. And to be able to have those conversations and to go whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. I heard you say this Is that what you meant to say? Did you mean for that to hurt me? Did you mean to say these words? Was that intentional that you left me out of the conversation, to be able to come to you and say that is a huge change, because in the past that would not have been safe for me to do.
Speaker 1:Right. So, summing it up, we're looking at the time here. Summing it up where are we, john, in your opinion? Where are we, john, in your opinion? Where are we and what do you hope for the future?
Speaker 2:that's a loaded question well, I I think that we are um in the best place that I can ever think of us being um in the 36 plus years that we've been married I I this is as good as it's been.
Speaker 2:From my perspective, there's a whole crap ton of hurt that, when it rears its ugly head, it hurts, and it hurts me to see the hurt that I've dropped on you and and how that still still cycles through and still causes such excruciating pain. My hope is that we continue to grow together on this trajectory and that it continues to go up. I mean the, the experiences that we've had on these last two trips and the intervening time and you know what we're looking at for the rest of the year is so exciting and I'm so hopeful that our path will continue to go this direction. And I'll turn the question on you and ask you those same questions.
Speaker 1:I can't do that. I know you're the host well, you're the co-host, but what's the question I have? What do you hope for the future? I know you're the host Well, you're the co-host. What was the question I have? What do you hope for the future?
Speaker 2:Where do you think we are right now? Where are we now and what are your hopes for the future?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say that we are. We have grown both emotionally and spiritually. Obviously, I see things a little differently. There's still, for me, hesitancy to fully trust you.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's three decades of hiddenness and I still can't wrap my head fully around how you could do that. And so, unfortunately, there's a big mountain that you have to climb and there's work that I'm doing with my coach, my counselor, and you've got to earn it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I'm climbing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've got to earn it. So we are definitely way ahead of where we ever have been. We're able to, my gosh, we're sitting in front of flipping microphones, chatting it up on a podcast. You know, doing a podcast and being able to talk the hard stuff.
Speaker 2:About some really hard stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm not crying here, there's no crying in baseball, there's no crying Thanks for not telling me to suck it up.
Speaker 2:I'd be crying too, but one of us has to be able to carry the episode because we don't edit we don't edit right, it's a season of hurt, right, and it does hurt.
Speaker 1:It still hurts, but it's better. It still hurts, but it's better, and there is hope. There is hope and, boy, it can get better. Y'all, it can work.
Speaker 2:You have to work the process and don't do it the way.
Speaker 1:I did Right. Yeah, I mean you can remain arrogant and self-confident in falsehoods that you're telling yourself, or you can put your hands down and face what everyone else sees Maybe not everyone, but most everyone else sees which is the truth of your behavior, of your attitude and change, become a different human being. It's hard work, but holy balls y'all. It is worth it. It is worth it. I think my next podcast title not the title, but the title of the podcast should be Holy Balls Y'all. There you go. Holy Balls with caps. Anyhow, a little funny to leave y'all today with what about your hope for the future?
Speaker 1:Oh Lord, you're calling me on that my hope for the future. You know, I am one day at a time, and because I'm hesitantly hopeful. However, there's a big, that's in all caps. However, there is that big old hill, that mountain that's out there of. He looked me in the face for 30 years and lied to me Aye, aye, aye.
Speaker 1:Aye, aye aye, I do have hope that I will continue my healing journey, irregardless of what you choose to do with your healing journey. Hope for us is rising. It's the more that we can communicate freely and openly and not beat each other up for feeling what we feel. They're legitimate feeling, right, legitimate feelings. Um, it gives me more hope. Um, I I know we have a lot of trips planned out in the future I always and I use the word always in that sense of the word give myself the option to say no and to change my mind about is this safe for me? And I give myself permission to leave any unsafe situation. So, as far as that goes, I'm very hopeful.
Speaker 1:I have gained so much strength in myself, a lot more self-worth where I had been just beaten down. You're not enough, you're not this, you're broken. Something's wrong with you. No, I'm human and I'm okay. I'm safe, I'm okay, I'm loved, as Mel Robbins would say. And so that's where my hope is. I can't say I hope we make it. That's not what I want. I want a thriving relationship with someone who would crawl five miles over broken glass for me. For me, as the Bible said, lay down your life husbands. Love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. Become honorable, become respectable that's my hope. Did that answer your question?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Sure, oh my goodness, woo-hoo. Well, that was a little off the cuff, y'all. I hope you hung there with us. There is hope and the addict can change.
Speaker 1:It is hard work when you add in just the rebelliousness and the fear factor. A lot of shame. But with the proper help and I will preach this till my last breath with the proper help, not a friend, not a buddy the proper professional help who will address your hurts, who can open up, help you open up those wounds and get healing. That doesn't happen with a friend or a buddy. I really, really encourage you to get professional help. Allow God to work through the good people that are out there helping to heal these hurts of sexual betrayal. John's a prime example that it does work. It can be done. So thanks for joining us today. Next time we will talk about healthy detachment and how that helped me to survive this road of oh my goodness, it's been a living nightmare, but I am surviving. I am a survivor and we're looking to thrive and continue my healing journey. So until next time, y'all, god bless you. So until next time, y'all, god bless you. Connect with us at wwwhurtmeetshealercom. Until next time, god bless.
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