Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Forgiveness...Is More Than Saying Sorry
What does genuine forgiveness actually look like when you've been deeply wounded? In this raw, unfiltered conversation, we tackle the misconception that forgiveness simply means saying "I'm sorry" and moving on. Instead, we explore the painful, messy reality of what true forgiveness demands.
The journey begins with debunking common myths - most notably that "forgive and forget" appears nowhere in scripture. Biblical forgiveness involves cancelling a debt, not developing amnesia about what happened. This process costs us something significant: our right to justice or revenge. We discuss how forgiveness becomes especially challenging when offenses are repeated or when betrayal trauma is involved.
Our conversation gets uncomfortable as we navigate our own ongoing struggles with forgiveness. We share how resentment builds when hurts remain unaddressed, how boundaries protect us while we work on forgiveness, and why simply knowing the right approach doesn't make implementation any easier. The theoretical understanding of forgiveness collides with the practical reality of living it out daily.
For those struggling with forgiveness, we offer practical steps: acknowledging resentment, journaling to process emotions, understanding triggers, developing compassion (however difficult), focusing on the present, and seeking qualified support. We emphasize that forgiveness doesn't mean tolerating continued harmful behavior - boundaries remain essential.
The most profound insight may be that unresolved pain requires attention. When certain hurts continue resurfacing, they're signaling unhealed wounds that need addressing. For couples healing from betrayal, this often means creating space for honest conversation where the hurt person feels truly seen and understood.
Whether you're struggling to forgive someone else or yourself, this episode offers both compassionate understanding of how difficult the process can be and practical guidance for moving forward. Connect with us at hurtmeetshealer.com for resources to support your healing journey.
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Kim Capps ministry that was created to help individuals and couples who are walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Hey, everyone, welcome back. We are here on episode 25 and I've titled this one. Forgiveness is More Than Saying Sorry. Are you sorry? Yeah, and hey, John.
Speaker 2:Good evening.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, this is a hot topic for us around here, around here, and so we're hoping I hope that sparks won't fly that we could have a nice educated conversation about forgiveness and that we can honor each other's beliefs about it and what well kind of what the Bible says around that it does not say forgive and forget. I will say that much. We were talking last episode on healthy detachment and one of the processes in that is forgiveness, working on forgiveness, and it's a process, y'all. It is not a once and done thing, it's not a oh, I forgive you, okay, it's done, it's under the blood. Boy, I've heard that a bazillion times in my life. It's under the blood. Okay, what does that even mean? I don't even know what that means. Okay, it doesn't take the pain away. So am I bleeding? Is it? What's the? You know what? I don't. Yeah, somebody help me, send me a, send me an email, tell me what it's about, please. Did you know, john, that the forgive and forget phrase phrase from what I have gained information on in my research where the line pray, you now forget and forgive appears in one of the acts of that play?
Speaker 1:I have not ever read anywhere in the Bible that we are to forgive and forget. We are to forgive absolutely and as many times as is necessary. Jesus said 70 times, 7. As many times as necessary. And for me that's every dang day, sometimes every minute of every day. Well, I'm sleeping some of that, but every waking minute, sometimes every minute of every day. Well, I'm sleeping some of that, but every waking minute. And the reason that we're called to forgive number one God forgives us. Jesus came and paid a price so that we could be forgiven. However, because we are not God well, today, I mean, I hope I'm not, because there would be a lot of like tar stains on every road that I drive on because of my limitations with others and their driving skills.
Speaker 2:They would come to a fiery and quick end.
Speaker 1:No, I would just pull them over on the side and melt their tires or something I don't know. But forgiveness is for our hearts, as we receive forgiveness from God for our sins and our shortcomings, and we hurt God's heart, so we are to forgive others as they hurt us. However, forgiving someone does not take the pain away. The event still happened and it doesn't erase the facts of the event occurring, nor does it erase the impact that it has on us.
Speaker 2:Right, I agree all the way.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm hearing a but coming in, however, it's not a, however it's.
Speaker 2:it's simply a, an addition that there's. There is the, the decision of forgiveness, and and then there's the living out of that decision. And so if if we're going to talk about the, if we're going to talk on the topic of forgiveness, we need to decide what aspect we're going to talk about first, which is are we going to talk about the decision to forgive and what's tied up in that, or are we going to talk about walking that out and living that out?
Speaker 1:All of the above and it's going to be in three episodes. So we have plenty of time to do this. So let me ask you this question If you were coaching someone, say a man who his wife had intimately betrayed him, and you were coaching him to forgive, what kind of information would you share with him If he comes to you and says I don't even know how to forgive this, I don't know. What does that even look like? Where do I start? Where do I begin?
Speaker 2:Okay, so for me there's two real key passages to start with.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to have to interject because you're going to go straight to the Bible, and so I am looking for a practical. Can I put some parameters around this?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Practical steps. Okay, I'm really pushing back on religious John here, so forgive me. Oh, there we go. Forgive me, john and forget. Forgive and forget. Okay, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, if we go back to that particular statement, I don't believe that forgive and forget. I mean clearly, god believe that forgive and forget. I mean clearly God never says forgive and forget. What he does say is forgive like I do. So that's the. I mean. There's a long conversation. Where does he say that.
Speaker 1:Can you show that to me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he says forgive as you have been forgiven. In the Lord's Prayer he says I'm going to forgive you the same way, in the same manner that you forgive others. And back in the Old Testament he says over and over again that I will remove your sins from you as far as the east is, from the west, and remember them no more. And that isn't a God doesn't forget, but God does choose not to remember. And as far as the practical steps, I'm raising my hand. Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I can't see it, but I am raising my hand. Okay, go ahead. Y'all can't see it, but I am raising my hand. This is going to get dicey, y'all. I'm just going to say right out loud out front we're living this out loud, and so this could get dicey, because now I'm having some I want to say regerts about asking you that question, because you're going to give me an answer of things that you have not done for me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I've failed at this, there's no question. Absolutely guilty.
Speaker 1:And so it is going to. I will just tell you right now it is going to. There's going to be some rise up in me.
Speaker 2:Sure, and some pushback. So let me give the caveat to all of that is I know the truth about a lot of this. The truth about a lot of this. I have not lived the truth out very accurately in a lot of this.
Speaker 1:Very accurate.
Speaker 2:So I have blown that horribly.
Speaker 2:For years I carried bitterness and resentment and I am suffering the consequences and so are you and those around me are suffering those consequences of my um unwillingness to actually live out what I knew.
Speaker 2:Today's bible verse on the app, on the you version To him who knows what is right and doesn't do it, to him that it is sin Right. And so I have sinned in that way. So please, you and anybody listening, please don't hear me as I say what I believe Scripture says and what the process of this looks like. Please don't anybody think that I think I've got this figured out, that I'm doing it right or that I've done it right. I have so screwed this up for so long, and part of the reason that some of this is burned so deeply in me is because I have screwed it up so badly and suffered such painful consequences and delivered such painful suffering to those around me especially to you that the foundation of that is I have gotten this wrong in every conceivable way and sometimes, when you've done it the wrong way so many times, you finally figure out the right way and it starts to really make sense and so I'm just saying the way in my context is God's way.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:You might hear me sigh a lot, because when he pontificates I get what's the forclept talk amongst yourselves, or frustrated is another word.
Speaker 2:There go frustrated, triggered, uh well I mean, let's just be honest, I've been a hypocrite for a long time, and so ever since I've known you. It's, it's, uh, it's easy to be um and again. I don't want that to come across like I've got all this figured out and I'm doing it right.
Speaker 1:I will attempt to set my mind at ease and continue.
Speaker 2:I'm discussing a topic that I've done some research on, and that's different from testifying that this is how I live everything out.
Speaker 1:Okay, then I'm going to request that, as you say things that you will admit that this is just what I found. I really feel it. This is just what I found. I really fail at this, please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll start off again by saying everything I'm going to say about forgiveness and what God says about it. I have failed, so there is not one thing I'm going to talk about, as I understand God's plan of forgiveness that I have not failed at. Okay, so Rock on. So what I? The context of forgetting in Scripture is not what we think, what I experience daily, forgetting things. What was I going to tell you? Right? I forget things all the time. Why did I walk into this room all the time?
Speaker 2:God says that he removes our sins from us as far as the east is from the west and remembers them no more. That is a choice that he makes. And if you look at history and the oral tradition, how did history get handed down? Before there was written language? It was repeated, and they repeated these stories over and over and over and over. And when language finally became written, they started writing them down.
Speaker 2:The way we forget things in the context of forgiveness is we stop rehearsing them, we stop telling the story. And so when you go into the new testament and jesus talks in this, in the lord's prayer, and he says if I'm gonna forgive you in the same manner that you forgive those that sin against you the same way, and how does he forgives? He never brings our sin back up to us once he's forgiven it, and that's, and then the last thing I'll say on that. In Matthew 18, where we've got the parable of the unforgiven servant, is you mentioned forgiving the debt, and that's the in multiple translations. That verse he's is.
Speaker 2:It says that the master had pity on him and canceled the debt, debt. And so my understanding of, of, of the, the model of forgiveness, is that it literally cancels the debt and as an accountant, that's an important um, that's an important concept because on the balance sheet you've got assets and liabilities and the balancing number is the equity. So if I, if, if, if I incur a debt, or if somebody incurs a debt against me, then there's a liability on my balance sheet and in order for that liability to go away, there has to be a corresponding entry to wipe it out, and that corresponding entry comes out of equity. It is a very costly and painful thing to forgive, because I have to give up all my right to ever having that offense justified or rectified so well.
Speaker 2:I don't know exactly the word I'm trying to find, but I've, I've, I'm releasing whoever had that debt from ever paying it what so I have to eat it.
Speaker 1:Continually repeated the debt. What if this, the offense, is continually repeated?
Speaker 2:Then that's where you mentioned 70 times 7.
Speaker 1:And what if it's done so many times and you have forgiven 70 times 7? That's not 70 times 7. I think it can allude to that same offense. You have to forgive again, again, again. But the repeating of an offense over and over and over again and you forgive. And what if, say, yesterday, you did an offense that has taken place all through our marriage together and I forgive you of that, but you think that, oh no, she's still holding it over me because of these things way back here? How do you reconcile that? How do you know that I haven't forgiven of these things back here and that I'm upset of this offense? That, by the way, is a big track record.
Speaker 2:offense that by the way, is a big track record. But yeah, and that's where all of it gets messy. And you know, there's the. It's like many of the other topics that we talk about. There's the theory, there's the the. Uh, you know, this is what it should look like or could look like, or, but then the. When you begin to apply the reality of life, it gets really messy and it's hard to say um, because it seems insensitive and it seems not compassionate. It's hard to be sinned against in the same way, and so I don't want to make a statement that comes across as flippant in this process. A statement that comes across as flippant in this process it is a. You know, I've read and looked at a whole bunch of different material on forgiveness and how do you forgive, because I've struggled with it, as you know.
Speaker 1:I've struggled with bitterness and resentment, and so here's what's interesting I didn't even know you had that against me. You wouldn't talk to me about anything. So how I mean and most of the things I would say, but I don't know, because you still won't share things with me. Most of the things were made up in your head. They were the stories that you told yourself, not the facts about what truly occurred, and so you were resenting me for stuff I didn't even do makes sense.
Speaker 2:It does make sense. The they were still real hurts whether.
Speaker 1:Whether yeah but I didn, even. I didn't do them. Well some of them were real. I hold against you the lies that you've told me repeatedly. The leaving me out of conversations, not coming to me first, before having an in-depth conversation about things that could affect my well-being and my life. I don't hold them against you. Well, you know what? I'll confess that I do hold some things. Yes, I do. I'll say it right here. I'm working through them. It is a process. It is a process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the hard part about having this conversation, because the facts and the teaching in Scripture is very cut and dried.
Speaker 1:Boy, the hair on the back of my neck If I had hair back there stands on edge. It just stands on edge.
Speaker 2:But the teaching on this is very cut and dried. The application of that teaching is so nuanced. It's so painful because it's so painfully real. It's so hard to look at the offenses and let them go.
Speaker 1:It's so hard because Well, here's how hard it is. I'd say how hard it is. It's hard when you're staying in relationship with the person who continues to sin against you. That is an intensely hard thing, and now, with someone that I don't live with, much easier. I can set healthy boundaries that I don't even have to. I can limit my time with them.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:I attempt to limit my time with you some days. That's the way it is yeah. I need a break.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:That's the way it is. Yeah, I need a break. Yep, that's just life, and there are times when you sin against me that I need to walk away and go do something else so that I don't build up a resentment just by looking at your face and want to just chow you, so that I can go get clarity, so that I can release that. Something I haven't done well is I haven't set and held healthy boundaries and I think that's something that I need to incorporate again in my life is healthy boundaries of what I will accept in my life, and especially except from you. So thank you for all of that.
Speaker 1:I have a different opinion on these things. My opinion is when we forgive, we release the justice of the offense to God. We don't take out justice on the people who sin. Releases us to go live our lives. If we're still in relationship with this person, it gets dicey, it gets hard, and it is especially when it is a repeated offense. And that is where boundaries come in, because you can forgive an addict all day long. It will not heal their addiction and if they're addicted to lying, if they're addicted to hiding, if they're addicted to sex, to porn, to alcohol, to drugs, whatever it is forgiving does not heal that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely right.
Speaker 1:Nor does it heal the relationship. Nope it doesn't. Nor is it condoning that that is an okay thing, because I forgive you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Forgiveness doesn't excuse or in any way legitimize what anyone has done. Right right is. It breaks that. I think control is a word that I'm looking for. It breaks that control of me needing to exact punishment because I want to see it happen, right For my own benefit, because you hurt me. I think you should hurt.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's one of the things you mentioned. You know, releasing the justice to God. Right, but in the context of releasing the punishment to God. And one of the questions that I see asked in that context is okay, and I have gone through Brad Hambrick has a I don't know 26, some odd lessons on forgiveness that I went through and he asked the question in there okay, but what if God doesn't punish this person? How do you respond to that? What if God instead blesses that person? And then somebody else that I was reading said one of the tests of your heart is how you can pray for that person that sinned against you. And Again, I have failed on all of these and it's very messy. So I don't want anybody to think, least of all you to think, that I think I've got this figured out and that I'm doing it right.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I hear, John, in a lot of our conversations about this. That's what I hear, right.
Speaker 2:I'm confessing to you.
Speaker 1:Please, you'll have to do it multiple times.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't believe it, that I'm struggling to actually implement this on a daily basis in my own life, daily basis in my own life. I know enough of what to do and why, but I don't live it out well and I'm I'm struggling to do that? Yeah, because I want to receive god's forgiveness and I know that it is directly tied to how well I forgive. And if I don't want him opening the door to my past sin, then I've got to not open the door to your past sins or whoever it is. I've got to keep that door closed, because when I open the front door, I give God permission to open the back door. The other thing that it does when I open that front door is I start making agreements with the enemy about whoever it is that sinned against me, about whoever it is that sinned against me. And I have an accuser, you have an accuser, and every time I make an agreement with your enemy about you guess what? I become your enemy. And you know the Arabic proverb the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Speaker 1:Well, how do you process decades of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's back to the messy part. It's messy, it's hard, it is.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:And just saying that this is how it really looks, and actually living it out is way different and I have absolutely gotten every one of these things wrong.
Speaker 1:I agree Brutally wrong. I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2:And so I'm trying to live it out today and just learn every day to live in grace, and I still suck at it.
Speaker 1:Well, get in line, because I think I'd lead. I want to be the line leader. As our granddaughter would say, I'm the line leader. But I believe forgiveness prevents us from building the bridge to resentment. And if we can really, really practice the art of forgiving, the action of forgiving, the action of forgiving it will keep us out of that bitterness and resentment area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I can tell you that the fastest way to bitterness and resentment is the rehearsal of those hurts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is the rehearsal of those hurts. Yeah, so there's a few steps that you can take. If you're just out there going okay, how do I do this? Releasing the resentment, acknowledge that it's there, acknowledge that you actually have it. That's the first step to healing is say it, confess it, accept that you have these feelings, you're hurt, you're angry. Journal oh my gosh, journaling has been great for me. Understand where the resentment's coming from. What's the source? I ask myself a lot of why questions. Why did I react that way? What's going on inside of me? What triggered that inside of me? What triggered that? And understanding that can help with figuring out the why behind the what.
Speaker 1:Practice forgiveness Process. Your emotions We've kind of talked about that of feel, your feels Feelings are amoral. They're not good, they're not bad, they are, they just are. God gave them to us as indicator lights to say, hey, something's good, something's bad, something's amiss. What is it? Let's figure it out.
Speaker 1:Setting boundaries to protect your safety, protect your peace, I believe is paramount to it's just a huge step in the forgiveness side of things and preventing resentment. If you have healthy boundaries, you get to determine if these people who continue to sin against you or who have past sin against you, have relationship with you, and at what level they have relationship with you, I would say and this has been a hard step for me is developing compassion for this person. It has been hard to develop compassion for you, john, as I've watched you just flippantly lie out the wazoo repeatedly to me. And I don't have to go back far, I don't have to dig up the past, I don't have to go in the history, the annals of history, to have that. But there's still, as you can tell, a bit of resentment there that I've got to dig it out and work it through. And my coach really helps me to focus on the present. She reminds me focus on the present.
Speaker 1:Resentment ties us to the past and it's done and gone. There's still pain and if we're still going back there, that means there's some pain that needs to be healed. There's some unhealed things and we have a lot of unhealed things. We have a lot of loops that haven't been closed. We haven't talked about things.
Speaker 1:As far as I'm concerned, I want to talk about things you don't. As far as I'm concerned, I want to talk about things you don't, and I think until we can talk these things out, there's going to be this unhealed history, my opinion and get some good support. I mean seek really good help. There's great, great people out there who are trained in trauma recovery and trauma support. There are links on our website to other websites that will get you to a list of many, many great coaches and counselors and mentors. Seek good help, seek good help. That has been my. The best decision I ever made was to get in a group and get good help. To get in a group and get good help. So we're going to stop right there for this session, before it gets any more wiggly, I guess, and any last word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say keep short accounts.
Speaker 1:You know, clear those things up, it's easier said than done on betrayal trauma I get if somebody cusses you out or cuts you off in traffic. It is a, it's just a different beast. Right and it doesn't mean it's not possible.
Speaker 2:Right doesn't mean it's not possible. Right and and the the point I was going to make is there there are a lot of things that are hard things to work through, so accept and acknowledge that. There are other things that oftentimes in in my case, I allow to pile on because I on because I don't want to deal with it. For me, one of the big struggles that I have is there's so much of that hurt in the past that some of the smaller hurts in the present that could and should be resolved in that loop closed. I have had the tendency to stay away from addressing them because I don't want to open the big can of worms that I know is there.
Speaker 1:That needs to get open. Right, that needs to get open, right.
Speaker 2:So I'm saying, as an encouragement from somebody who's done it wrong close those small loops, as you can, be intentional and do that, and that way you You'll build some Track record To work on the bigger Loops that still need to be closed. And I'm trying to implement that and Trying to be more present In the conversation To hear more and and to see more and and to Be better at that.
Speaker 1:Because I've Been miserable at it for long enough, right, yeah? And when there's pain that continues to come up, something's not healed back there and it needs to get opened up and figured out what's going on and discussed. And the hurt person needs to be seen and felt and heard and understood and to gain understanding. And if it's with the person that hurt them, even better, especially in a marriage, if the husbands can come alongside their wives and be compassionate, be empathetic. Yeah, you hurt us, admit it, and then make amends, make a healing journey with her.
Speaker 1:I told you the other day get down off your high horse and put your concerns and stuff on the back burner for a bit Not forever and go tend to your wife and help her heal. You can do that if you choose to. And, by the way, it won't kill you. I think it won't kill you. You haven't tried it, so I guess we'll report back when it happens. All right, y'all thanks for walking on this journey with us. Part two next time we'll go into a little more in-depth as far as the processing of forgiveness and more in detail on the steps to take and how we're both struggling with that and not doing it well.
Speaker 1:We're working through it though yeah, working on it, working through it. So thanks for being with us on this episode of the Hurt Meets Healer podcast. We appreciate your time. If you do need help, you can check our website out at hurtmeetshealercom. You can contact us through there as well, and there's some links to other organizations who have groups and mentors. We coach and mentor as well, and so I just encourage you to. If you need help, please get it. It is out there, it is available, and people are ready to love you through this pain. So thanks again for being with us. God bless. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at wwwhurtmeetshealercom. Until next time, god bless.
.png)