Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Why Is Change So Darn Hard? - part 2
I Stopped Acting Out… So Why Do I Still Act Like a Jerk? (The Arrogance Trap in Recovery)
Sobriety stops the behavior, but does it actually make your partner feel safe? We go straight at the hard stuff: why pride can feel like progress, how “ego doping” keeps the reward system hooked, and what real humility looks like when the acting out ends but healing hasn’t begun. Kim and John unpack the difference between dry sobriety and meaningful recovery, naming the subtle dynamics that quietly wreck trust—minimizing, spiritual bypassing, scorekeeping, and defending intentions instead of owning impact.
We don’t stay theoretical. You’ll hear a practical path forward: a handwritten daily inventory that targets selfishness, fear, and dishonesty; direct amends for recovery behaviors like impatience and stonewalling; and a weekly ritual where you ask, “Where was I arrogant or insensitive this week?” and listen without defending. We talk about practicing being wrong on purpose, saying “I don’t know,” and building a support circle that tells you the truth instead of nodding along. You’ll also hear an anchoring question that reshapes the entire journey: if you stayed exactly as unhealed and proud as you are today, even while staying sober, would your partner feel safe and loved?
Rooted in faith and real-world recovery work, this conversation blends scripture’s call to humility with trauma-aware repair skills couples can use right away. Expect candor, tension, and hope as we map how humility becomes the engine of change—replacing ego with empathy and making room for trust to grow back. If you’re ready to trade pride for peace and sobriety for safety, press play and take the next honest step with us.
If this resonated, subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your story could be the hope someone else is searching for.
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Hi, and welcome to the Heart Meets Healer Podcast. I'm Kim Caps, your host and president of Heartmeets Healer LLC, a business tree, business plus ministry that was created to help individuals and couples are walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Hey y'all, welcome back to part two. We are gonna continue on with why is change so darn hard? Um and I'm gonna put an additional tagline on there. I stopped acting out. So why do I still act like a jerk? And it's the arrogance trap in recovery. Um yeah. So it's kind of a it um it's gonna be a hard topic for uh some people. However, I think it's relevant. I know it's relevant in my life. Uh, whether John, hey, you're still here. I'm still here, whether our spouses uh believe it of themselves or not, this has been my experience. And so I just want to talk about it. Um and see, see where it heads, you know, see where we go on this. I want to say uh and read one one point of scripture here, and I'm not gonna discount the first six verses in First Peter 3. I want to start with verse seven because it's talking about husbands. The first six verses talk to the wives, and they are wonderful, great information. Um, I believe them. It's yes, do those things, ladies. Verse seven says, in the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat your wives with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. Treat her as you should, so your prayers will not be hindered. And he goes on in verse eight to all Christians, not just um husbands and wives, but I think it really could help us in our marriages. Verses eight through ten, finally, all of you should be of one mind, sympathize with each other, love each other as brothers and sisters, be tenderhearted and keep a humble attitude. Don't repay evil for evil, don't retaliate with insults when people insult you. Instead, pay them back with a blessing. This is what God has called you to do, and he will grant you his blessing. For the scriptures say, if you want to enjoy life and see many happy days, keep your tongue from speaking evil and your lips from telling lies. And it continues on and on, talking about peace, turn from evil, do good, search for peace, work to maintain it. And God's watching us. Um so that's where I want to begin this episode. Um what do you think, John? Uh I'm actually, I will be quite honest with you, I'm afraid to even ask that question from last episode. Um, yeah. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00:Well, there's a lot there. Um, you know, you really gotta go all the way back to chapter two to get the full flavor because he just keeps saying in the same way, and likewise, and you know, and it goes all the way back. Um and it's talking about submitting to each other and living with each other in grace, and um so there's so much there on on that side, so a lot there, and um this you know, the idea of thinking that you're you've arrived because you stopped acting out is uh definitely a trap. It's a trap. And uh you know, it can get us stuck thinking that we're done with recovery because we're not acting out anymore. And you know, the reality is uh and I don't know, I'm not gonna speak for anybody else other than me. And most of the time I don't even speak for me very well, but you know, my acting out figure out and apply whatever label to that you want. You know, it can be alcohol or gambling or porn or you know, whatever. Um but the whole the whole acting out um was simply about trying to numb emotions that I didn't know how to experience. And so just because you stopped numbing out your emotions doesn't mean that you're healthy yet. And you know getting getting to a place where you can really experience not only my emotions, so for me, getting to a place where I can not only experience my emotions, but your emotions, and I'm looking at you.
SPEAKER_01:Um I feel your stare.
SPEAKER_00:That's you know the beginning of healthiness or of health. And it's a long journey. And you know, we're back to this whole, you know, why is this so stinking hard? Because we build all these, and and one of the answers, and there's so many answers, and there's no answers, right? Um, but we build all these systems in our head that you know prop ourselves up, and uh for me, you know, I'm able to ignore my weak spots and accentuate my strengths and essentially live in denial of reality. So the end.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So um, yeah, well, let's just dig in. We're we're still talking about um and the reason I I titled it this way is a lot of um guys, gals in recovery have these attitudes of, well, I've I've got six months, two years, um whatever sober from whatever it is, whatever their addiction, sex-born affairs. Why are you still mad at me? Uh if you have to remind me that that is what it what your thing is, uh uh that's a problem. I I I, in my opinion, and this is just Kim, if you have when you say something like that, when I hear something like I'll just put it on me, when I hear something like that, holy balls, that that tells me that that person is emotionally arrogant, spiritually constipated, and relationally tone deaf. There is, oh my goodness. Instead of humility and humbleness, they're reminding you of I'm being reminded of I haven't acted out in six years or whatever it is. And that leads to there's two types of sobriety. So there's dry versus actually in recovery. The dry addict says, I'm not acting out, therefore I'm fixed, and you should be grateful. Real recovery shows humility, and it says I stop the behavior. However, I am still broken, I am still an arrogant human, and I I need to keep changing. I need to keep walking my path of recovery. And and where you sit on this, there.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. Um really?
SPEAKER_01:I'm shocked. It it is uh Do I need to encourage you? Oh my gosh, he stuck his tongue out at me because we were having a conversation before we went uh live with this. Talking about the last episode of um wives encourage, give encouragement. Do you want to clarify? Do you want to say anything about that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, let me clarify that. Um I I recognize, and and please don't hear me say that if you're in the middle of the early stages of all of this and you're you're being hurt, um, that's that's not the challenge. Um it it is, you know, as you begin to see, and the context of that comment was in the middle of watching and observing your husband, which we'll say in this case, really work hard to break out of the ruts of the old patterns. And so the context of that is simply to say in to be in to encourage those efforts and those small victories that they may be experiencing. You showed up in this manner, in this way, on this day, thank you so much. That's that was where that was coming from. It is not to not enabling behavior by any stretch, that doesn't help anybody in recovery at all.
SPEAKER_01:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:So right, I'm very sensitive to somebody that's that's in a a a situation like yours that's hurt and has difficulty in s even seeing the positives that are happening, much less calling them out. So please don't hear me say that and put that on anybody as a burden or an expectation to try to encourage somebody that's actively hurting you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00:And as it relates to this, you know, to the whole journey of recovery, there there are so many stages of this and so many um pitfalls or potholes, if you will. I actually think of them more as sinkholes or areas of quicksand that you get out of one and you get, you know, you walk walk a little ways and you step into another one. And so it it's a progression, it's a circle. And um, not a cycle, but it's it it it feels like um gosh, it feels so demoralizing at times to look back at the progress that you've made, and all of a sudden, as soon as you turn around from that, you've stepped off in another quicksand hole. And and and this is not about relapse, it's it's it's simply about the journey of of building in partnership with God and your mate, uh, the new you. And that's hard. It you know, why is change so hard? We're back to that same it's it's hard because it's hard. It's it's hard because it matters, and I want to get it right. And it breaks my heart when I get it wrong, and it's and that's costly.
SPEAKER_01:What if it's hard because our pride gets in the way?
SPEAKER_00:It could be that as well.
SPEAKER_01:Did you know that I mentioned this the other day that pride gives the same neurochemical hit that acting out did? It's called they call it ego doping.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't know that. I heard you say that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm curious about the research on that, but that's a that's a new one for me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, think about it. Think about it like this. You you are prideful, you get praise, you this um egotistical person that is uh outward appearances, you appear like just a nice guy. Yet there's this pride monster that look what I did. Look what I boom. It's a dopamine hit. Hey, ooh, I did, oh, look what I closed this big deal, boom, it's a dopamine. And and it this arrogance, you gain this arrogance about yourself because it gives you this hit. It's the the same neurochemical hit, same dopamine, same, same thing. I wonder if that's why the Bible speaks so much about pride. I mean, Proverbs, holy smoking Joe's, Solomon, he went through, I mean, a lot of his stuff talks about that, being prideful. And I wonder if arrogance feels like progress because you're like, look at me, look at what I did. I don't need anybody, I don't need any help. I'm reading these 5,000 books on my Kindle and I'm listening to these podcasts. I don't need a group, I don't need a mentor or a coach. Yeah. Pride. Pride and arrogance. Yeah. And I I question it if it's protects you from the humility that's required to look at the damage and the hurt that you've actually caused on that. And if I just stay arrogant, I won't have to admit and be accountable and humble myself. So here's here's a couple of behaviors um to look for, especially the betrayed spouses. Minimizing. Minimizing. Oh, it was just this, get over it. Oh, it was only a few this, it was only a few drinks, it was only a few text messages, it was only a couple phone calls. Yeah, I got over it. Minimizing. Um, yeah, it's not minimal to us. So, yeah, stop it. Uh spiritual bypassing. And have you ever said this? Have you ever thought it? Uh and I'm looking at you, John. I'm asking you this question. God has forgiven me. Why can't you?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know that I've ever said it. I sure hope not. But if I have, um, I I have thought it. I don't I don't remember saying it.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I've said a lot of things.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe not verbatim. Maybe not verbatim. But you said stuff like, that's not my identity. But you hadn't changed the behaviors, so I guess it was still your identity. Maybe you were just hoping it wasn't. I don't know. But y'all. And so, and and then there's scorekeeping. Scorekeeping. That I call it tit for tat, but also this um scorekeeping sobriety. Well, I've got you know, two years worth of sobriety. Well, I haven't acted out in six years, well, I haven't acted out in three months. What about you? You're a sinner too. I've heard that one come at me. That hurt, that hurt a little bit. Um, yeah, this tit for tat stuff. Not cool. And then there's impatience with the betrayed partner spouse. Which oh my gosh. Have you experienced that?
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I'm guilty on almost all counts.
SPEAKER_01:Almost, I love that it's almost all. Which one? Which one? Uh I'll ask this question in a minute.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I haven't gotten to all the counts, but using recovery language as a weapon, you're not working your own progress. You're not working real program. You're not you're not doing your thing. Well, you still, well, you do that to me.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I'm guilty on all counts. Well, I'm yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What's the blo okay? So this episode there is I stopped acting out, so why do I still act like a jerk? Wasn't that kind of I mean, Why do you give yourself an a by why do you give yourself a pass? Why wouldn't the first time you just go, man, I'm I'm just guilty of it all. Yep. Done it all. We can talk about that outside this podcast. That that seems to be an an often thing that you say almost. Almost all. Well, I'm mostly these um clari not clarifying, but uh these words. So uh why are you still acting like a jerk? Why is it why I call it called recovery arrogance? Well, I'm gonna call it recovery arrogance. Why do you still act like a jerk if you're you know, not that? Why does the behavior show that? Why do your why does your language show that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, the ruts are deep and they're hard to get out of. And so uh most of the time uh my initial reaction is it's it's getting better, but most of the time my initial reaction is still um self-preservation.
SPEAKER_01:What are you trying to preserve?
SPEAKER_00:I'm not real sure actually at this point. I mean it's serious. That's a serious question. It it's uh it's that I think if we go back to one of the things that you said in the last episode about um our brain is still trying to protect, you know, and and so without um without monitoring, without a conscious intervention in my own head, my initial reaction most of the time is still negative, it's still self-protective.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so I've got to fight to overcome that.
SPEAKER_01:Do you realize that shows?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah. And that's absolutely visible to me.
SPEAKER_00:And I don't like it, and it and it is a matter of um frustration, which I know comes across as frustration, but it can also be misinterpreted that I'm frustrated with you as opposed to what's really happening in me is that I'm frustrated with me, and but it presents the same way because it's the same emotion. And on your side of the fence, it's absolutely valid to see frustration and and to point that at yourself because that's where it's been pointed all these years. Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So let's talk about the root causes of recovery arrogance. Um, there's a few that I came up with. One is untreated character defects. So you you treated the symptom, the um the way you were coping, the acting out, but not the underlying cause. So you stopped in theory acting out, right? What we would call sexually acting out in 2019. Yet this journey of the past six years has been, oh my lanta, like walking on nails or thumbtacks or Legos, or it has been painful, just devastatingly painful. And I have done a lot of research and schooling on narcissism, on entitlement mentality, and unhealed shame. Where do you sit in those? Do you would you say you have untreated character defects or that you're working on some? I don't well, I'm not gonna say what I think. I'm I will wait for your answer.
SPEAKER_00:I am working on character defects. I don't know that they're untreated, but there I have recognized a lot of my own character flaws and have really began to work on them, you know, at various levels at various stages. But yes, I absolutely have um character flaws uh, you know, that I'm um I've identified um working on correcting, changing, um, shoring up, abandoning, you know. There's and and some approaches valid for different ones, right? But um yeah, character flaws, I've got a few.
SPEAKER_01:Did they go untreated for a while? Oh, yeah, in your recovery journey, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean I I think and I see the recovery journey as this um conscious self-exposure. And um I it has taken me a long time to be willing to expose myself that way. So, you know, there's all the you gotta fight through denial and shame and all that, but at the core of all that is you have to be willing to feel safe, to feel comfortable, to feel whatever it is, to think that you're gonna be okay to actually expose yourself. Because other people can point things out, right? Can which can come across as a confrontation, an accusation, uh or encouragement that you know or the truth, all of the above, the truth, which will set you free. Absolutely. The the truth will set you free, um, but you know, it how how that's presented to you is also important, and that's where speaking the truth in love comes in. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. You've got a booger on your face. Or hey, I want to go look in the mirror because I think you have a booger on your face, right? Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I call that the kid gloves, and kid gloves only go so far. All right, especially with an arrogant individual, you can't kid glove them. I've tried, it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_00:So the the whole spectrum of of that self-exposure, but it doesn't really matter. As I understand, my journey and my experience is it's helpful to have that pointed out. It's helpful to have that pointed out gently, but even if it's not pointed out gently, it's helpful to have it pointed out, right? Um the spoonful of sugar and all that. But ultimately, I have to be willing to receive it, no matter how it's packaged. It can be packaged inside, you know, of a nice chocolate, or it can be packaged just simply on a spoon. But reality is I've got to be willing to receive it. And I have to be willing to look and say, oh my gosh, that's me. And it doesn't really matter how it's delivered, what matters is what's in my heart, and if I'm willing to be humble enough to hear it. And at various times I'm I am, and at other times I'm just not. And that's what I've learned, you know, in this is I have to be intentional about being more willing to receive the stuff that I really don't want to hear.
SPEAKER_01:The end? The end. Wow. Um uh we'll we'll have to go back and listen to this, but I uh what I heard is contradiction in what you were saying. You want kid gloves, but then, and I wrote this down so that I would not forget, and that I would, it doesn't matter how it's delivered. You said those words. That's not the message I receive. I hear that, Kim. I need kid gloves. You need to speak kindly and nicely and with a gentle tone, otherwise, um, I'm not listening anymore. Doo-dah, doo-dah. And if you deliver it with a tone, I cannot hear you.
SPEAKER_00:I yeah, that was half the sentence. The other half of the sentence was I have to be willing to hear it. It doesn't matter how it's delivered, I have to be willing to hear it.
SPEAKER_01:You said before that that it does matter how it's delivered. It and in our relationship, you have mentioned to me many times that it matters how it's delivered. Yet I hear the words, you just said it again. It's how it's delivered.
SPEAKER_00:Let me clarify. You can say it as nicely as you want or as harshly as you want. All right? It doesn't matter how it's delivered, I have to be willing to hear it. I have to be willing to hear it when you say night say it nicely, and I have to be willing to hear it when you say it harshly. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:It does.
SPEAKER_00:And and we have had the conversation that even when you have said it nicely, I haven't been willing to hear it, right?
SPEAKER_01:Doesn't make a difference.
SPEAKER_00:And so that's exactly what I'm saying. Doesn't matter the delivery, my heart has to be ready for it and willing to receive it. And and yeah, is it easier to receive with a soft delivery? It absolutely is, but it doesn't matter if my heart is hard to the to the message, then the delivery system's not gonna matter. That's what I was that's the point I was making, right?
SPEAKER_01:And I think that points at shame. Absolutely, absolutely shame, and um my expert I've experienced shame flipped into uh grandiosity, if you will. Um I have heard the words, it wasn't that bad. Well, I didn't do XYZ. Well, so and so is worse than me. And I'm not like them. It was only this, not that. Oi. Heard that a lot in the early days.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Um, the early days, not necessarily the early days of recovery. The early days of sobriety, perhaps, but not the early days of recovery.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm gonna ask you this question off the air so you can write it down. When did your recovery actually begin? Because the next root cause is working a half, I call it half donkey program, which is you're going to meetings, um, but you're not doing the steps. You have a coach, but you're not being quite, you're not being totally honest with them. Um, you're not being vulnerable. You read a book, uh, however, you don't follow what it says to do. It gives you wisdom, it gives you knowledge, but you don't do what it says. So those are just three three root causes of recovery, arrogance, untreated character defects, shame flipped into grandiosity, and working a half what I call half donkey program. So um continuing on is when I hear um and I've experienced this, you stopped acting out, you stopped cheating on me. However, you still didn't see me or or care how I feel, how I felt and and take um have empathy for my hurt and my pain. And that arrogance kills intimacy faster than a relapse. You know, it as I look back, it wasn't that you had a porn addiction, that you um had an affair, it was the lack of empathy, the lack of ownership and accountability, the lack of humility that hurt me, the continued grandiosity of I've said this a bunch of times, you think you're better than you are, and that's just lack of humility. Humility is the ultimate aphrodisiac in recovery, arrogance, the ultimate repellent. If you want to repel somebody, just be arrogant. How's that worked in our relationship?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I can certainly attest to the back side of that.
SPEAKER_01:What's the back side?
SPEAKER_00:The repellent side. I'm not as experienced with the front side of that statement.
SPEAKER_01:Would would you say you've been arrogant through this recovery?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, by these measures, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:By these measures. Man, I just love how the lack of full um ownership that you just wow, you just caveat it. It's lack of full humility. Absolutely, Kim. Yeah. Yep. I'm arrogant. And you know what? You just proved it out by failing to walk humbly and own. But okay. Yeah, raise your eyebrows. I see it over there. Be smug, your smug superiority. That's fine. You haven't hit bottom yet. You haven't hit bottom. And ladies and gentlemen, rock bottom isn't the last acting out episode. Rock bottom isn't the last affair. Rock bottom is the moment that that person realizes that their personality, their character that they've allowed themselves to become is still destroying, hurting, causing pain in the people that they love. And if arrogance is still showing up, it's it's just evidence. Just evidence that addiction is still driving this person. They may not be looking at porn or calling the hotlines or going to see prostitutes or whatever the addiction is, drinking 20, you know, a fifth of whiskey a night, but there's still an addiction there. There's still an addiction there when there's arrogance. When you see humility, that's a person who owns their behaviors, have hurt someone. So, how how does a person move from arrogant sobriety to humble recovery? And you know what? It's a daily battle, y'all. It's a daily battle. Take an inventory every day. Um, I encourage journaling, I think it is awesome. Right, handwritten. You can use your phone and your eye, whatever digital stuff, but oh my gosh, it has been proven scientifically that and um through the medical side of things, through psychology, that handwriting, writing it out, it actually helps change and rewire our brains. Fascinating, fascinating. Um, so do do a daily inventory. Was I selfish? Where was I selfish? Be honest with yourself. Oh my gosh, the first person, by the way, and that you have to lie to is yourself. If if you're going to be dishonest, you the first person that you're dishonest with is yourself. And so ask yourself, honestly, where was I selfish? Where was I dishonest and fearful or inconsiderate? And then be brave and share that with someone. Find an accountability partner, a group. And then number two is make direct amends for recovery behaviors, not just act the acting out behaviors. Make amends. And you've asked me this question a lot, John. Well, I don't even know what that means. What does making amends mean? Have have you researched that? Have you done any kind of investigation to understand what making amends means?
SPEAKER_00:I've done some reading on it. I wouldn't, I don't know that I would characterize it as research by your definition, because you're a way better researcher than me.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, we're not comparing. I I just asked you a question. Have you investigated amends?
SPEAKER_00:I've read um I've read several different pieces on amends.
SPEAKER_01:What's your take on it?
SPEAKER_00:Uh well, my take on it is um it is simply looking at how my behaviors have impacted others and doing my best to soften that impact or um erase it if possible. Most of the time that's not possible. You can't erase the past. Right. But the impact, you know, maybe I can um apologize or um show up differently. I mean, to me, an amends is recognizing that I showed up this way that time and and intentionally showing up a different way the next. And, you know, it's being vulnerable when before I wouldn't be. Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And so number three, that leads right into number three. Ask your partner. Set a date once a week. Go to a park, y'all just sit on a bench. I like to swing. Swing, you know, take a walk. Ask your partner where have I been arrogant or insensitive this week? And then my shirt, STFU, shut the F up and listen without defending. I have this saying that you're defending an undefendable position. What the heck? Well, how does that even help? So just tight your lips up and listen. Listen to how you have hurt this, your partner. If you really want to be different and you really want your marriage to work, and you really want to move to humble recovery. And number four is, and I can't believe this is even in here. Practice being wrong on purpose in small things to retrain your ego. Man, I don't even have to practice. I it just happens to me. I'm I'm wrong a lot. And you know what? It's okay. I don't have to know everything, and I don't have to be right on everything. I'm okay with that. What about you, John?
SPEAKER_00:Oh gosh. I have struggled with that a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Being wrong?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Ah, gotcha. Feeling like or thinking that I have to have an answer for everything. And I think Grok, he has the answer for everything. Exactly. Or here's the better version, get God. Exactly. I'm just now getting to the point where I'm becoming comfortable in talking to clients and saying, you know, I don't know the answer to that. I'll look it up. I'm less comfortable saying that to you still, but and wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_01:That just slammed my brain because you often say, I don't know. I can't recall.
SPEAKER_00:I know, but I'm unsure.
SPEAKER_01:But it's not I don't know. So what?
SPEAKER_00:It's still it's still not something I'm comfortable with.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I still say it, but I wait a second.
SPEAKER_01:If you're not comfortable, how does that fall out of your mouth? That like scrambles my brain. I'm not comfortable with it. I'm just gonna go on and say it anyway. Well, no, I'm not that that doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Being uncomfortable with it isn't mean doesn't mean that I don't mean it. It means that there's there's this there's this part of me that still thinks and believes that I have to know the answer. And so and I recognize that as a faulty belief system, right?
SPEAKER_01:Do you realize that I have all the answers in the Holy Spirit in me? And secondary to that, well, way down the list, actually, is my phone or my iPad or my computer that I can research my own stuff on.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm learning, I'm learning to accept that too. I'm just saying, I have internally a faulty belief system that dates all the way back to childhood.
SPEAKER_01:Man, that's kind of suck.
SPEAKER_00:It does. But again, I'm learning to become more comfortable with it, with with accepting that, that I don't have all the answers, nor do I have to have all the answers.
SPEAKER_01:Cool. I hope that that side of you shows up more, more frequently. Right? All right, so moving on, because we're I noticed the time here. And number five, is oh my gosh, so important. Y'all get help. Get a person who will hold your hands up, who will challenge you to be arrogant. Most addicts surround themselves with yes men, yes women, people who just are afraid to call them out. On wait a second, is that the truth? Um, is that you're drinking at 10 o'clock in the morning? Is that acceptable? Is that proper? Like get get help, get honest, rational help, who will call you on your stuff, who be radically honest with you. That's what it takes, y'all. It takes us a mirror so that we can actually see how our behaviors hurt others, how our addictions have changed the character of us, how we've become not what God created us to be. And here's here's what will the the big huge, I guess, overarching thing is real humility, y'all, isn't thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less. When we begin to think about others, when we begin to care and consider others, oof, that changes us, y'all. It changes us. The moment the addict drops to their knees and says, I'm still the problem, even sober, even sober is still me. Is the moment that me and all of those betrayed partners out there that we can finally begin to breathe again. True humility. True humility. And that often is when genuine attraction returns. I read a quote the other day that said, Your sobriety doesn't impress me. Your humility would. So we're we're closing in on again, we're over time. And we asked the question, why is change so darn hard? And someone out there in the logosphere said, there's really not a difficult thing unless you decide it's a difficult thing. Otherwise, it's just the next thing you're figuring out, just figuring it out. There you go. And and wow, I just want to encourage you. I'm gonna leave y'all with uh especially the um the person who believes they're sober, why is my wife still angry? Why is my spouse still hurt? Um, just ask yourself this. If I stayed exactly as arrogant and unhealed as I am right now, but never acted out again, if I never looked at porn, never sought approval from other people, never drank another drop of alcohol, would my partner feel safe and loved? If I stayed exactly as arrogant and unhealed as I am right now, but never acted out again, would my partner feel safe and loved? What do you think? John, you got an answer? Would I feel safe and loved?
SPEAKER_00:I would say no.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have any follow-up on that? Just a no.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's a yes or no question.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but well, alrighty then, that concludes our conversation.
SPEAKER_00:It is uh yeah, this journey is hard. It is um not hard, it's challenging. There's a lot of uh there's a lot of of things to work through on the journey. And each one presents its own difficulties, and um each one is you know difficult in its own way and challenging. And you know, like like you said, change in itself isn't hard. There's a lot of steps there that you know some of them are more difficult than others because they require more of us than others.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's what we think about it that makes it difficult or not.
SPEAKER_00:I remember in boot camp it was the same way, you know. So one thing that I want to make sure that we mention is this uh stop it. This Gottman quote, and that is um couples get stuck when they defend their intentions, and I'm gonna say, let me back up and say, I'm guilty. Couples get stuck when they defend their intentions instead of focusing on how they made their partner feel, and I find myself in this mode a lot, and I'm really starting to see it and hear it and change it, and so but that one was huge in our notes, and I wanted to make sure because it's very impactful for me. I if you are in the kind of the defensive mode, what are you defending? Are you defending what you intended, or are you defending because what what your partner's gonna feel is the how they felt and that you're denying them their feelings.
SPEAKER_01:So all right.
SPEAKER_00:That's all I have to say about that.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks. And thanks for joining us on this episode. And y'all, it's been it's been hard, it's been brutal. I don't I don't like to use the word hard, it's difficult. We face difficult things, but then it goes back to that quote. There's really not a difficult thing unless we decide it's a difficult thing. Otherwise, it really is just the next thing we're figuring out. And so it doesn't have to be hard. Arrogance in recovery is one of the biggest reasons couples don't make it, even when the acting out stops. But the ones who finally surrender to real humility often say it was the first time they ever became someone worth loving. That is a powerful statement. And guys, I just man, I really want to encourage you, put your hands down, put your hands down for your wife, put your hands down for your kids, put your hands down for those who are watching your recovery journey, and you may not have even shared that you're in. Well, if you haven't shared with anyone, you're not in recovery. You're faking it. So I please get help. There are there is so much help out there and available. If you need help, go to our website. We refer out to for groups to two organizations. They are fabulous, brave hearts and living truth. And they are groups that will love you and honor you and help you through this pain. Um, we don't do groups, John and I, we do individual and couples coaching and mentoring, and we're happy to walk alongside of you and um just love you through this journey. So, guys and gals, you are loved. There's a God who's crazy in love with you. Please, please get the help that's needed. Break the cycle. Break the cycle. Why is change so hard? We fight it. We don't believe it. We choose, we decide it's hard. With those that surround us, though, if we get some accountability partners and help along the way, it's not that hard. Grab somebody's hand and ask them to help you up. Thanks for joining us today. Boy, I hope there's a nugget in here that helps you along your journey. Reach out if you need help. And until next time, y'all, God bless. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember, you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at www.hurtmeetshealer.com. Until next time.
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