Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
I’m Taking Off The Kid Gloves
If you’ve ever felt forced to be “the understanding one” while your heart keeps bleeding, this conversation will feel like oxygen. Kim and John dive straight into the cost of kid gloves after betrayal—how minimizing, DARVO, and conflict avoidance prolong pain—and what it actually takes to restore safety. We draw a sharp line between confidence and self awareness, unpack how trauma bonds keep partners stuck, and name the moment the betrayed spouse chooses reality over appeasement.
You’ll hear a clear framework for boundaries and consequences that isn’t about punishment—it’s about safety. We break down the four healthy responses every betraying partner must practice: listen without defense, ask what’s needed, act immediately with proactive transparency, and accept that trust is earned over time. Through a vivid boat analogy, we show why constant course corrections don’t work if the person steering denies the storm, and why stepping into community—therapy, groups, coaching—often becomes the turning point. Healing accelerates when witnesses help separate facts from gaslighting and teach steady presence in conflict.
Throughout, we return to the core truth: reconciliation requires accountability. Sobriety without honesty won’t rebuild trust. Integrity isn’t a speech; it’s a daily pattern of calm, consistent, boring choices that prove safety. If you’re the betrayed partner, expect to hear validation, language for boundaries, and encouragement to stop managing someone else’s emotions. If you’re the betrayer, expect a path forward that is hard, humbling, and absolutely possible.
If this resonates, share it with someone who needs courage today. Subscribe, leave a review to support the show, and tell us: what boundary or action step are you ready to take next?
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Hi, and welcome to the Heart Meets Healer Podcast. I'm Kim Caps, your host and president of Heart Meets Healer LLC, a business tree, business plus ministry that was created to help individuals and couples are walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Hello, hello, and welcome. Welcome back for those of you who listen. I don't want to uh uh say, oh, all two of you anymore, because I don't know. We get there's a lot of um reporting coming in that there's more than that. So thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us uh today. I am Kim and John is here with me. Sorry about the paper rattling in the background. My sticky note actually stuck. That's not Imagine that. I know that's a rare occasion. Today's episode I titled I'm Taking Off the Kid Gloves, uh, with a caveat there of I'm Done Wearing the Kid Gloves, When the Betrayed Spouse Finally Tells the Truth. And uh, if I recall my mindset when I was thinking through this episode, I believe it was um uh just probably exasperation, frustration, tired of um just tired of all the nonsense, the ridiculous, the ridiculosity. You know that that sounded better in my mind. I'm just gonna leave it there because I can't say I can say it in my head, but I can apparently it will not uh leave my lips. So, and my hope is that this episode will um encourage the betrayed partners. It will um be a comfort, be some help uh for those of us out there who are exhausted from being the quote understanding one, end quote, and a wake-up call for the addicts who believe that sobriety alone entitles them to kid gloves or a gentle landing. And so that's that's my hope on that. What do you say there, John?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I appreciate the invitation to join. And uh, you know, I learned something recently that was interesting for me, and that is um, you know, I've always had this mindset uh and belief that you know we're supposed to speak the truth in love, and I had confused that with be always being speaking lovingly, and sometimes the truth hurts, and I can speak the truth in love even though I may have a tone.
SPEAKER_02:Whoa. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, I I may beaver clipped for a few moments because and and and excuse me?
SPEAKER_00:It's a hard I mean it was really hard for me to come to grips with that as I was um thinking through that and being confronted with that reality is that you know if if what I'm saying is is guided by love and I'm really trying to get through to my mate and say some things that need to be said, it sometimes it takes the harsher tone to break through those defenses. And you know, for me as a lifetime conflict avoider, and you know, I've got my history that's wrapped up into that, but i i it is uh a learning area, growth area for me to um recognize that not all conflict leads to disaster. And and that whole yeah, you know, the the you know, I always thought that it was um something to be extremely avoided, and so I did a good job of avoiding it.
SPEAKER_02:No, uh I'm gonna I'm gonna help you out there. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. I don't know where that thought uh I mean I I know you're you're great at um putting lipstick on a pig and calling it pretty. Um that is still a pig. And uh no, you didn't avoid conflict whatsoever. You caused and created a lot of conflict by trying to avoid dealing with the issues, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:There you go, dealing with the issues, but you did not avoid conflict whatsoever. And what baffles me is the the lack of awareness that uh doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a okay thing, and let's just go with that, and and that it's taken this long for those words, and I'm hearing that first myself here, um, as are you out there. Um, that's a first for me to hear him say that um yeah, the whole tone and I do my work, it's just well, and I do have a note here in our notes here because you called, you said you have a tone. We were having a conversation, some conflict going on. And um I want to talk about our conversation this morning too, because that's funny. But and so um, and I I kind of brought it up in one of my um well, I brought it with my coach as well. And I'm like, no chauqua there, Sherlock. I have a tone. Uh I'm hurt, I'm frustrated. Would you like me to just sing it to you? Of course I have a tone. I mean, you want me to monotone it to you? Hello, we are all robots. Hi, I am hurt. What you said hurt me. Oh my gosh. How boring would that be? And by the way, that's not my issue that I speak with a tone when I'm angry. Um, that's your issue. Because that's being human, right? It's um it's like inflection.
SPEAKER_00:It's I absolutely confess that uh it is my issue, and it's one I'm working on. It really is.
SPEAKER_02:Good. Uh it's uh about time. It's a little tardy there, senor, a little tardy, but I'm glad that you're working on it now. So um let's just dive right in because we usually uh I'm good at chasing rabbits, and dad gummit, we have a bunch of them here on the ranch. But tonight I'm really gonna try to stick with our things and why why kid gloves in the first place. And I would I'll say from my um standpoint, I noticed early on that when I got harsh, I watched you retreat, and I was so afraid because when we got married, I'd just been abandoned by my dad, not just me, but our family. He um divorced my mom, and there were uh just many extended circumstances, and I thought he he wasn't um making efforts to to reach out, and he was right, they were just being blocked, and so I I really believe as I've done a lot of soul searching, a lot of counseling and digging into my thing, I believe there was a trauma bond. Um I trauma bonded to you because you boom, you turn around, he's there. You wake up, he's there. You would come when I was working. Um, my former, former, former, former uh occupation is a registered respiratory therapist. And when I was working in the hospital, he would bring me dinner, boom, you turn around, he's there. You come out of a ICU room, and he's sitting there at the station waiting for me to finish suctioning a patient or whatever. And um, so that that man that I was missing in my dad, you showed up, and no one else had done that. And so I think there was a big time trauma bonding. Um kind of like you thought I would fix your issues. I believed that we would help each other, right? And we would we're a team, we would be there, we would uh um that whole uh and I don't think that movie, oh what's his butt, Tom Cruise movie You Complete Me. What a bunch of that's a biggest load of BS that line.
SPEAKER_00:It's a great movie, you know. It's a great line in a movie, right? But it's not really but I mean, God does I think put us together to bring out, and John Eldridge writes a lot about this, uh, you know, to help heal each other um and find healing with each other, but to to put that on each other, that's not the way it works either. It it it's the mutual process as we work together and live together and grow together, right? And our human issues, uh not yours and mine, but all of ours, um, is what gets in the way of that.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, human issues. You uh um this is just truth. You came into our marriage with an addiction. Oh, absolutely. Big time addiction, no question. And you came in also with this confidence, this arrogance. I um missed that. You were so arrogant. I look back now and go, oh my goodness, how did I miss it? But I saw it as confidence. Look how confident he knows everything. Oh my gosh, he's gonna take such good care of me. He's gonna be, wow, he knows all this stuff. I don't know. I knew practical things. I knew how to change a light bulb, I knew how to um change the tires, change the oil in my car, I knew how to do mechanical things, common sense, you know, things that you were like this book smart dude that I didn't have. And I didn't realize until recently that confidence does not for me inspire safety or trust. Being self-aware does. When you're self-aware to go, um, I know exactly what I'm capable of, Kim. I know exactly what I can do because I've done it. I've lived a lie, I've done the stuff. My track record speaks for itself. That's being self-aware. Not I was this or I was that that's not helpful. And so, and that's just been fairly recently on that. And so my biggest fear was being left again and abandoned. Um, and so I took I took all the blame. I I took all the um pressure and the role to try to attempt to make this marriage work for the longest time, and all that got me was more and more blame. Oh, hey, look at her, she can handle that. Here you go, let's have a little more. Thank you, sir. Can I have another? I mean, like, just ugh. I look back and I know I'm supposed to give myself grace. That's what my coach says. Like, ugh, it's so hard to do that. And getting good help has really opened my eyes to go, you know what? Uh-uh. I'm taking these, I'm taking the gloves off. And taking the gloves off means uh facing reality. And we've said this before. There's a line out there. Um, gosh dang, something is reality at all costs, or something like that. Um, truth, no, dad gummit, we'll find it. We'll find it in one of our things. I'm I remember we said it not long ago. Um but it hit me that uh I wasn't to blame for your behaviors, nor was I responsible for your feelings, because feelings come from what we think, what we think about what happens to us. Now, if I hurt you, that then oh my goodness, I don't want to hurt you. And if I didn't, if I hurt you because I'm telling you the truth, I'm not gonna apologize for that. Now I could be saying something in the middle of and you know it goes sideways. We have this happen a lot in our crazy conversations, and because we have a long history, right? We have a flipping long history, and so what I look at is saying something like, oh my goodness, I can see how that landed wrong. That is not what I meant. Can I try it again? Are you open to me trying again instead of this? Um just blah blah, you know, you're mean, you're this, you're that, or whatever. So taking the kid gloves off is to me setting healthy boundaries, beginning to trust yourself again, ladies, or in some cases men who have been betrayed. Um saying what it sounds like in my book is your sobriety is meaningless to me if you're still lying about XYZ. Mental health is a dedication to reality at all costs. There it is. And so um stopping stopping hiding, um telling them the truth, you know, because the truth I I'm I may have said this to you at one time because the truth triggers you, that speaks volumes. You don't get to be comfortable while I'm still bleeding. That would tick me off to watch you what appeared to me to be living your life, and you're just stabbing the pazanka out of me. And um oh, I know I've said this one. I'm not your accountability partner, your therapist, or your mother. Figure your stuff out.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, you have.
SPEAKER_02:What did that sound like to you?
SPEAKER_00:Um, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02:I can't I can't play music. Yeah, I know. I guess I could. I need to see what some of these buttons do on my thing over here. It's probably not the right one for applause or no.
SPEAKER_03:Wah.
SPEAKER_00:The uh the crickets. Um yeah, it it just I don't know how it landed.
SPEAKER_02:I I I have a list if you look on your notes, because that this is what I got from you. Oh, okay. This is what I received. Okay. So if you want to know how you reacted, right here, you can just look and read. But if you would like help, but it typically defensiveness. That's the very first one that pops up. Defensiveness. And then what I call darvo'd. Darvo, you darvoed me, dude. You darvoed me, which is defend d a. What was the A attack? That's right. Reverse victory offender. It's late. We're recording late tonight. Late. I'm gonna air quote late for us old people. It's late. And you know, they would say in defensiveness, you're being cruel and abuse, you're attacking me. Oh my gosh. I don't like your tone. Oi, man. I should have started the swear jar a long time ago. And when stuff like this happened, you would have filled up, oh my gosh, just buckets and buckets. Um, the victim reversal thing. Oh no, I'm the bad guy because I'm trying. Ring a bell, any kind of ding-alings going on in there. Withdrawal. Um, I don't know that you've you didn't say this. You didn't say that line right there. If you talk to me like this, I can't stay sober. But a lot of guys do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You did withdraw. Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And sit there in silence and sulk and well, and part of that was part of that was my conflict avoidance um strategy. Part of it was my um seemingly untarnished record of making it worse.
SPEAKER_03:A plus plus.
SPEAKER_00:Because I I didn't ever have the language to and maybe it was the humility that I didn't have to learn the language.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, bing.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But the language to say, oh my gosh, I see that landed wrong. Can I try again? I was always like three steps ahead of that trying to explain what I circumvented.
SPEAKER_02:I wouldn't say you're three steps ahead, you circumvented the whole thing. I skipped it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00:I skipped that step because I didn't need it. Right? So I thought. Okay. No, that was that was very sarcastic. Okay. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I thought.
SPEAKER_00:I thought I didn't need it.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um sure. And so I would I was always um uh what's the well the country analogy is like a cat trying to cover up a turd.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Like the dogs that don't even come close. I'm like, seriously, dude.
SPEAKER_00:But that that was, you know, so my withdrawal was attempting to not make things worse than I already had.
SPEAKER_02:Which was making things worse.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Right. But every time I opened my mouth, it seemed like I just made it worse. Right. And so I stopped opening my mouth, which also made it worse. Right.
SPEAKER_02:So we'll get to we'll get to that because you have to talk things through. It may seem worse. It's always darkest right before dawn, right? That's the the right. And so now this happened just recently. Uh minimiz minimizing and deflection. Do you remember when just a few days ago? I can count back. It was a relevant day in your life. And minimized and deflected, and you said, Um, I can pull out my notes because I actually um jotted it down. You almost said these very words, so my feelings don't matter. So which in turn minimized, and all I was doing was sharing what was going on in me. And instead of listening and coming with understanding and care and humbleness, you minimized what I was sharing, minimized me, and you deflected and made it about you. So there you go. Those were um this is typical of what I have experienced.
SPEAKER_00:If there's if you ever need to know how not to do something, um, contact me. If you're interested in how not to do recovery, I'll back you on that one.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Contact me. I can save you, you know, years several years, perhaps, if you'll listen. But if you're like me, you might not. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So what it boils down to is accountability. And um I have a line here that says reconciliation without accountability is just access to repeat the harm. I know it's not on your paper. I probably added it. I add stuff to the things. I gotta have something. You add, yeah, we both add stuff, it's all good. And so um, and what this did for me was hearing all those reactions, what that did to me was caused me to go, you know what? Um, I'm gonna have to take a break from being in relationship with you for a little while. I need to detach, I need to protect myself. I gotta heal some wounds here that because I continue to be around you, you're sticking your finger in the wounds or stabbing me again, for goodness sake. When I've asked you, put the knife down for grace, goodness, gracious sakes. And and by that time, by the time I got to that point, I had I had already screamed, I had whispered, I had begged, I had bled for you to get it, and you didn't. And the next the only next thing for me, because I I was done. I had given I'm I'm at a point where I don't I don't know what else I can do. I can work on me, which is all I can do anyway. But as far as relationship, relationship takes two, reconciliation takes two, and I'm not going to reconcile with someone who is not responsible with my heart, responsible to a level 10, who continues to be defensive, be the victim, withdraw, minimize and deflect, and not show me care and concern. And instead do this tit for tat thing. Well, you did that, so I can do this. That's been the story of our marriage, by the way. Well, she yelled at me, so I'm gonna go get on the phone with my girlfriend. Well, she yelled at me, so I'm gonna go watch this porn. Well, she yelled at me, well, I deserve this then. I'm gonna go drink, I'm gonna do XYZ. And that's been the that's been the cycle, the sick cycle of this marriage. Well, she's withholding money when I was doing the books, and then it it I mean, I can just go on and on and on and on and on with example after example after example. And all it just leads to me going, man, I put my hands down. I am done fighting with you, I'm done explaining, I'm done um listening to your lies, I'm done watching you like we watch the calves. Even a freaking newborn calf is walking within an hour. Bouncing about brand new.
SPEAKER_01:Still wet. And I watch you going, what the what? What the what?
SPEAKER_02:You didn't get it, and I don't when I I don't yeah, I I'm verklift. Talk amongst yourselves. The it seems like this phase, it may seem like um is scary. Because I do I do have divorce as an option. I know you don't like to hear that, but it's there. I have to have it there. That has that's I'm closer there than I've ever been. And why? If you hate that word, why would you continue to push me to that? And I made an analogy, and we may not, dad again, we may have to do two things of this one too, part one and two. But I made an analogy about this, and the analogy is a boat, and we're in a boat, and you're steering the boat so erratically, and I'm talking about this recovery road, this journey that we've been on, and you're leading us to storms. We've been through wave after wave. You have actually walked over, punched me, and thrown me out the boat multiple times, and then screamed at me. Why are you yelling at me and attacking me and telling me to stop throwing you out of the boat? You caused this woman. I didn't do this. Now swim your butt back over here and get in the boat. And you know what I did that? I did swim back and get in the boat. You'd hit a wave and I'd fall out. Did you lend me a hand? Nope. Find your own life. Well, you should have taken a life jacket with you. It's your fault for not wearing a life jacket. Swim you swim back over here. And I would come to you every time I would swim back and get back in the boat. Until one day, I'm like, no, no. Because here's what I did. One day when I was in the boat, I found some people who are actually helpers, who help people who get thrown out of the big ass boat of betrayal and end up nearly drowning because their spouses continue to drive erratically and do not help them, continue to blame. And so I got into their boat, and I chose health. I chose to respect myself, I chose self-respect. I chose to stop being fake nice to in hopes that um one of my biggest fears was you would commit suicide. I thought, oh my gosh, he's gonna kill himself. And so I would, I can't say this, oh, don't say that. Oh, and um, yeah. And so guess what? Now I had help. And you know what they did? They taught me, they taught me that uh that wasn't my fault that you're steering the boat erratically. I mean, I'm gonna try to help you. I'm like, dude, dude, this this is what's causing me to jump out the boat here. This I wasn't well, sometimes I did jump out, and and when you do it like this, then I fall out. If you would just stop, stop lying, stop hiding, stop dismissing, stop being the victim, stop tit for tat, stop, then the list goes on and on and on and on. We could work this boat together and turn it around and steer it to safety. And you're like, nope, nope, nope, and nope. Oh, and no, by the way, no, and so I just said, you know what? I'm done. I'm gonna stick with people who uh love me, who they hold me accountable for when I get off base, but they also care for my hurt, and then they ask the right questions. They don't tell me what to do, how to do it, they share their experiences. That's what group's about, by the way, y'all. Groups, community is where we heal, and that's where I have healed or done a lot of healing, is in community, and so uh it's a that's a horrid phase to be in watching you steer erratically. It's like watching you know the calves try to stand, and you want to just I remember the first time we uh watched a calf being born. I wanted to go help that baby so bad, but you can't, you can't unless there's something terribly wrong where you have to intervene. You don't, you just stand back and you stand way back, and you let that mama do what God put in her to do, and you let that calf do what God put in it to do, and it's fascinating, it's fascinating, and they don't question it. Well, am I supposed to stand right here? Wait, wait, no, somebody else is gonna have to stand for me. No, it's instinctively put in them by God Himself to do that. It's instinctively put in you, John, to be compassionate, to be caring. When we act a fool, when we show contempt and uncaring, that goes absolutely against the very life, the image of Jesus that we are to bear. It ought to be natural for us to struggle, to work, to and then get up and win an hour, within an hour be bouncing around. Now an hour. Okay, for a calf. For us, I get it. A year or two, sure. But holy balls, dude. We're in our seventh year of true recovery. There were years prior that, well, I got help, I got counseling, I got, you know, all the wrong advice given to me, except for one guy. And um, yeah, but it takes two. That's proof right there. It takes two. I can't do it. That's interesting. I just had a thought, yet you still put all that pressure on me all these years. Okay. That's another subject to talk about. All right, I'm gonna let you get a word in edgewise here. Go ahead. I'm I'm for Clip. Talk amongst yourself.
SPEAKER_00:There's not a lot to say there. I I like the analogy. Um, I hate that I'm the one that created it, but I do like the analogy. Um, and it's a hard it is a real difficult thing to uh battle with pride and fear. They both go together. Um you know, to the fear, the fear of being exposed as not knowing what I'm doing, um, you know fuels the f pride of no, I I I can do it myself when when I can't. Right. And and anytime that you're attempting a dangerous feat and you don't know what the crap you're doing, people are gonna get hurt. And usually it's the people closest to us that we hurt.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And man, I'm sorry that I have been so prideful and stubborn.
SPEAKER_02:I hear you're sorry, and I raise you. No, I'm sorry stops. That's that's my line, sorry stops. And I appreciate that. And you know what? It's something that I'll probably need to hear, or you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just see it lived out. Right, right. But it doesn't hurt to say it.
SPEAKER_02:I mean unless it if it the behavior stops, sure. I'm sorry I punched you in the nose, and then tomorrow you punch me in the nose. Oh, I'm sorry I punched you in the nose, and then later on the day you punch me in the nose again. I'm sorry I punched you in the nose. Oh, sorry stops. Sorry stops, changed behaviors. So, and then for us, um, I think, and this was really hard for me was setting healthy boundaries. The big change that um was it was hard for me because I was always I played the role of the villain in my younger years and in this marriage. I was the the bad one, I was the uh rule breaker, the oh, what did I get called a lot? Um shoot. You would think it'd be right on the tip of my tongue. Thank goodness I it's not. Maybe I'm healing that as well. But um, how to speak hard truth, having boundaries versus punishing, is I just I really work hard to use eye statements, and it's eye statements on steroids. Uh, I I will no longer um be in relationship with people who lie to me. If you're gonna lie, uh, we do not have a relationship. I will be nice, I will be kind, but that's about as far as it's gonna go. It'll be, hey, how you doing, see you later. Have a nice life. Because as someone who lies, uh, to me, it they'll lie in every aspect of their life. So you can't don't do business with someone who's a liar. Just don't. Don't um do anything, don't get into financial things with them. Uh yeah, and especially don't get into an intimate relationship. And boundaries are what you will the consequences of breaking a boundary is what you will do. You can't force or control anyone else. So boundary is this is what I Will um accept in my life, consequences are are what I choose. I will walk away, I will um file for separation, I will take three days and go stay at my cousin's house or something. Not control. You can't control what someone else is thinking or doing. So, and the one thing I did was stop managing your emotions. I'm not that's that's not my uh in my wheelhouse. Um and you know, stopping this, worried about whatever you're gonna do. I can't control that. I have to live my life and be me. And for me, that's healthy. And it's been healthy, and it's been a freeing change in me that I'm not responsible for your emotions. Um my responsibility is to be the best Kim that I can be, to show up as the daughter of the king of heaven and earth, and to show that I'm his kiddo as best I can. Sometimes, more often than not, I blow it. I blow it, but thank goodness, man, he's crazy in love with me, and so um my opinion, okay, now please understand this is Kim and John. We are not professional. Well, I say professional. I do have uh certificates and diplomas and all that stuff in coaching and um mental health and all that stuff. However, I'm kind of sort of professional. This is not any kind of advice or medical. I'm just a guest. It's for entertainment purposes, kind of see all the legally stuff in there. But my opinion is really there's four, there's four um accepted responses, healthy responses. When um us as the betrayed finally take the kid gloves off, we finally learn to respect ourselves again, and we learn healthy boundaries and allow natural consequences to occur. It's so hard, y'all. It is so hard to do. However, if for us, if we can do our part to get healthy as the betrayed spouses, the addict's only healthy response is these four things. Number one, shut up and listen. I have, oh my gosh, that acronym that I want, STFU. Yeah, y'all can figure that one out. Shut the up. Um refrigerator. No defending. But I've been sober for now, but I'm blah, blah, blah, but but no butts, no ifs, and or buts. Shut up and listen. Simple as that. Number two. Boy, this is a big one. And there's a podcast out there that I did. Are you an askhole? Don't be one. Ask. Ask your spouse. What else do you need? Is there more? Is there anything I can do at this time? I'm not going anywhere. I'm gonna sit, I'm with you. I'm here with you. I had to tell this to our granddaughter the other night. The fireworks, there were we live in the country, so, and we're in Texas, so people shoot guns, they do all sorts of stuff, loud noises all the time. Not all the time, on special occasions, and so um I I was putting her to bed that night because we were on uh grandparent duty, and she was afraid, and she holds my hand so tight. And so I would just tell her, I'm here, baby.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not going anywhere, I'm here.
SPEAKER_02:I'm here, and I'd 30 minutes I'm sitting on the floor by her bed, and she's got her hand just grabbed, she's has to be holding my hand, which is fine. And I would rub her head and I would tell her she's safe. God loves her. It's okay. Big mama's here. And, you know, I just sit there. I do occasionally check her eyes to see if she's asleep, and then eventually she'll relax her hand, and I can take my hand out and put her little Anna doll, Anna, whatever the the thing, or else whoever it is, one of her princesses' dolls there. And slowly, slowly, as she has calmed down and drifted to sleep, then I can leave her room. But until she's comforted, I'm not leaving. So that's number two, ask. Uh number three, take immediate action. I like to say be proactive. Guys, gals, if you're the betrayer, if you're the addict, oh my goodness, be proactive. If there's anything that would have helped me, um, other than freaking tell the truth, um, is proactiveness, showing that you are taking accountability and being responsible. Handover passwords, schedule therapy, make amends, make the repairs without excuses and without ifs, ands, or buts, or this or that, or well, you said that, and this tit for tat business. Stop it. Stop it. I'm looking at you, John. Stop it. And then number four, accept that trust isn't owed. You have to earn that, and it takes months, it takes years, and it takes every day dying to self and being proactive, being one, two, and three. Hush and listen. Don't be an asshole, or on the positive side, ask. Be proactive and accept that you may not be trusted ever again. But how are you gonna live? Wasn't it C.S. Lewis that said integrity is doing the right thing even when no one's looking. I think it is.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know who said that, but definitely. I think it was C. S. Lewis.
SPEAKER_02:And so be I would just encourage you to be a trustworthy individual. Be honorable. I mean, that's what God calls us to do. We're image bearers of Jesus. Um so there are uh studies out there, and there's um testimonies of couples who actually say that this was the turning point when the betrayed spouse finally took the kid gloves off and started um being brutally honest. I call it being brutally honest, um, gaining their voice back, advocating for themselves. Um I think when you get radically honest, addicts, when y'all get radically honest with yourself, um open your eyes, take a hundred thousand percent responsibility and accountability for what you've done. It might surprise you how the tide will turn, how that ship, how the boat that you're steering there, because guess what you've done? You've stopped blaming the wind and the waves and everything, and you've taken responsibility for guiding that vessel. And you probably called in some help, and so now you have a helper in there who's going, No, no, I've been here before. Let me help you steer. Wait a second, let's go this way. Let's go this way. Well, what about this way? Okay, there we go. Oh, yeah, you're doing great, John. You're doing great. And then eventually they can take their hands off of that. Off of the steering wheel, and you can steer the boat all on your own in calm seas. Oh, and you can keep it there, and then you can sail to these wonderful places called intimacy and passion and genuine love.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Imagine that. The kindest thing, the kindest thing, betrayed spouses, the kindest thing you can do for both of you is to stop protecting your spouse from the consequences of their choices. Because only pain that's fully, fully felt ever leads to a real change. And until they feel the depth of the hurt and the pain that they've caused, my experience is that um yeah, change will not occur. But you got us, you got anything to say over there? You're awfully quiet.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I almost burst into anchors away when you Oh Lord have mercy.
SPEAKER_02:You are a Navy man.
SPEAKER_00:When when you were talking about sailing into those calm waters, and that was a very great analogy.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I have something for you, John, and it's this because you conflict avoidance. Conflict doesn't ruin relationships, avoidance does. Most women aren't looking for a fight, they're looking for resolution. They want to feel heard, understood, and reassured that they matter, that their emotions matter. When a man shuts down with drawing, stonewalling, or acting like it's not a big deal, or even playing the victim. She doesn't just feel ignored, she feels unsafe. True masculine presence in conflict. It's not about getting all big, it's not about yelling or being gruff or proving a point that you have to be right. It's about being calm and steady when things get tough. It's saying, I'm here, I'm listening. I want to understand you even when it's hard. A man who leads with calm, clarity, and emotional strength lets a woman relax. And that's what gives her the safety to speak openly, without fear of being punished. That's a tit for tat for how she feels. And here's something that might rest your mind a little bit there, John. You don't have to have all the answers. You do have to stay. Show her that difficult conversations, show me that difficult conversations won't make you walk away. That's all I know of you is difficult conversations cause you to walk away. If I want to get rid of you, I can just pipe up a difficult conversation and away you go. But a man who can hold space for my emotions without making it about his ego, that's a man who builds trust. That's a man who leads. So the end. Don't even say that.
SPEAKER_00:That's great. That's that's eloquent.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you. I found it on Pinterest. I don't think Grot came up with that one. I think that was Pinterest. It was somebody on Pinterest, so I can't even quote where it actually came from. So man, take off the kid gloves. I'll encourage y'all. I know it's hard. I know it's hard. Don't do this alone. If I can encourage you of anything, community, community, community. Healing takes place more profoundly and quickly in community. Um get a counselor, a coach. We have some great um resources that we can point you to if you need that help. Um, we'd love to walk alongside of you. Um, otherwise, just listen to these podcasts. But I would say otherwise, no, really community. And um, I just want to encourage y'all to get in community. They will help hold your hands up when you're learning boundaries, when you're attempting to set healthy boundaries and then um hurting when the consequences are so tough because of our spouse's choices that we want to just say, forget it. I just want to go back to how it was. But don't go back to Egypt, don't go back to slavery. I just want to encourage you, keep taking steps forward. You can do this. I believe in you. You got this, and I'm praying for you. I love you, and I know God is there with you, fighting, fighting right along beside you. So stay, stay in there. Well, any any last word, John?
SPEAKER_00:No, I echo all that. Um, I would love to help if I can. And uh, like I said earlier, I can sure tell you lots of ways not to do it.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. I will uh agree with that. He sure can. He's got them all um pretty solidified there in what not to do. So, well, thanks for joining us on uh this episode. I'm taking the on taking off the kid gloves. I hope it has been helpful and beneficial for you. Um join us next time. Who knows what the topic will be because it changes like uh like the wheel of fortune. God bless y'all. We appreciate you joining us. Be blessed. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember, you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at www.hurtmeets healer.com. Until next time. God bless.
