Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Do Liars Know They’re Lying? Recovery, Self-Deception, And Trust
What if the most dangerous lie is the one you tell yourself first? We dig into the hard question—do liars know when they’re lying—and follow it through the real-world fallout: broken trust, numbed empathy, and a slow drift from love into image management. From conscious deceit to self-deception and memory distortions, we unpack how small compromises become a lifestyle, and how that lifestyle quietly erodes marriages, faith, and self-respect.
John opens up about the progression from self-protection to self-deception during addiction, and the painful realization that came only when he could finally see the damage up close. We talk about the difference between a quick “sorry” and the long grind of repair, and why allowing consequences to land is often the only way truth gets a hearing. For those navigating faith, we call out the misuse of Scripture to justify control and spotlight mutual submission, humility, and accountability as the actual path back to integrity.
If you’re stuck in patterns of lying, or loving someone who is, this conversation offers a roadmap: name entitlement, stop rationalizing, welcome feedback that stings, and take the first honest step toward repentance. Practical takeaways include building community support, setting clear boundaries, embracing measurable repair (transparency, follow-through, consistency), and recognizing guilt and shame as prompts to seek help rather than hide. Ready to trade image for truth and start rebuilding trust? Listen now, share this with someone who needs it, and subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this helped you, leave a review and tell us the next hard question you want us to tackle.
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Hi, and welcome to the Hurt Me Taylor Podcast. I'm Kim Caps, your host and president of Hurt Meet Taylor LLC, a business tree, business plus ministry that was created to help individuals and couples for walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Hey, hey, welcome back. Episode seven of the Hurt Meets Healer podcast. And today's episode is titled, Does a Liar Know When They Are Lying? Dun dun dun. I know. I can hear it already. We don't call names. All right. So then does a person who is a habitual liar the still say, I mean, uh, habitually lies. Do they know when they're lying? Um, yeah. Uh well, are you ready up for this one, John John? Over there?
SPEAKER_00:I'm here.
SPEAKER_02:You kicking at you kicking at the goads over there?
SPEAKER_00:I was taking my shoes off.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, oh, okay. I hope they're hope it's it's okay over there. All right. So um I'm learning how to pronounce this. This guy's a Russian novelist, and he wrote this um thing. It's his name is Fyodor Dostoevsky. Oh.
SPEAKER_00:Very good. Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And here's what he says a man who lies to himself and believes his own lies becomes unable to recognize truth either in himself or in anyone else. And he ends up losing respect for himself and for others. When he has no respect for anyone, he can no longer love. And in him, he yields to his impulses, indulges in the lowest form of pleasure, and behaves in the end like an animal in satisfying his vices. And it all comes from lying to others and to himself. He said, yourself. Well, that's the quote I'm reading. But I say yourself, himself. It all comes from lying to others and to himself. So all right. Wow, that's a pretty uh pretty heavy quote there. Yeah. And so I I want to um not be the prominent voice on this. Um I want I want you, John, to speak from experience. Because here's what I know. I know when I'm lying. I know when I tell a lie. Absolutely. Do you?
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes. I know in um when I was really in addiction. Um and if you're somebody that is struggling or coming out of that, um this is a pretty sobering quote because it really is a his history of our lives. Um when you lie to yourself and believe the lies, you wind up doing the most despicable things that you never imagined that you would ever do. And so that's a pretty telling uh and and very accurate, I would say, um depiction of what that looks and feels like and winds up being.
SPEAKER_02:The end? Am I supposed to jump in here?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so I is it okay if I ask you questions? Um I know this is a uh sensitive, it can be sensitive topic for you. Um I know depending on um the person's mental state, the type of lie, whether uh a person knows if they're lying, it depends on those things. And there's been some people out there, some experts, way smarter than me, that um I went out and got a few insights from on this. And there's what does that look like? Four, four different things. There's conscious lying, there's self-deception, there's pathological lying, there's cognitive biases and memory distortion. So have you looked through any of those? Do you any uh any thoughts on where you land on that? So conscious lying is being fully aware that you're misrepresenting the truth. Um, deliberate liars knowingly provide false information to achieve a goal, such as avoiding consequences or gaining an advantage. Um this is what this guy says. So this is according to Paul Ekman. Um, he's a big researcher in on deception, and he wrote a book called Telling Lies, or maybe it's a paper, 1985. Um, and he says they may experience cognitive uh load, which equates to stress or guilt, um, or exhibit nonverbal cues like fidgeting. So um it'd be like someone exaggerating on their resume to get a job. Tip, you know, they typically know they're fabricating the details on that. Then there's self-deception, which some liars believe their own falsehoods, blurring the line between truth and lie. Um, there's a psychologist that wrote The Folly of Fools. His name is Robert Trivers. And um he says that self-deception evolves to make lies more convincing. So by convincing themselves of a lie, of distorted truth, then the person can avoid the telltale signs of deceit. So a person might rationalize cheating by believing that wasn't a big deal. Effectively, you know, just lying to themselves, right? And then being able to lie to others. Uh, more research suggests that this is the most common in overconfident people and or those protecting their self-image. I think you're in there a little bit. This is my thinking. I I would love for you to um speak up in there, and then there's pathological lying, which pathological liars often these people are oh, there's personality disorders, there's some kind of um possibly diagnosable um disorder in there. Not that that's necessarily bad because I think things can be treated, but stuff like narcissism or um sociopathy, um, psychopath, I mean, just some stuff that it would take a very uh wise professional, licensed professional to diagnose. They may lie so habitually that they lose clarity on truth versus falsehood. And studies in the Journal of Personality Disorders indicate they may not always consciously register their lies as deception becomes a default behavior. Um, like a pathological liar might invent stories without a clear motive, sometimes believing their narrative or parts of their narrative. I see you in there. I'm just I'm taking the kid gloves off. I'm telling them, being honest. And then there's cognitive biases and memory distortion, and people can unintentionally lie due to faulty memory or biases. Um, memories can be distorted by a suggestion of time. I I remember watching these shows back in the day before I uh, you know, these detective shows and where and they when they're asking questions, they're leading the witness. No leading the witness. And now I only watch comedy things because I can't handle the intense stuff. Um being an eyewitness. You know, not that they're lying, but maybe they forgot a fact of um what happened, right? I came upon a wreck the other day. I didn't actually see it happen. Now, what I could have done is lied and said, Oh yeah, I watched it. I watched the truck land after it had rolled. The girl that um watched it happen said it rolled, she said like three times, two or three times. I watched it poon, but that's all I saw. I didn't know what the heck had just happened because I was third on the scene. He was three cars in front of me, two, four, whatever it was. And so, but I didn't lie about it. The officer asked me, Did I see it happen? No, sir. I saw him, I saw it land. That's what I saw. And so, and I talked to the individual in the truck to try to keep him calm until someone more professional than me got there, because I am no longer a respiratory therapist, and my job is just to keep somebody calm. He was pinned in there, you know, he got rolled, or he rolled the vehicle, so something like that. Um, so what say you there, senor?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it it is a hard uh topic, but I it is uh I I think there's a progression of and you know, sadly I went down it, and you know it it starts with the self-protection and then there's the self-deception, and that becomes this lifestyle, and it it is a uh it's a st it's a spiritual journey, right? And only we're descending into hell and I mean that that is the that's the best way I can describe it. This self-deception and the li and the lies that I believed created hell not only for me but for you and for most of the people uh that were around me.
SPEAKER_02:And what lies did you believe?
SPEAKER_00:Oh gosh, we don't have enough time.
SPEAKER_02:Give me top three. Or not me, give give our listeners top three. Top three lies you believe.
SPEAKER_00:I you know, that's a gosh, that's a hard one.
SPEAKER_02:Um were there a lot? And so it's hard to narrow it down, or is it hard to admit? Like what's the yeah?
SPEAKER_00:I I think probably the biggest one is is that it it's not my fault. And I can't be wrong was would probably be the second one. And I I don't know about a the what the third would be, but those would definitely be the top two that it's all your fault, Kim. It's um well, I think probably the third big one is that I deserve and fill in the blank.
SPEAKER_02:Right, like entitlement.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it and those were the I I think those are the three and and you know to to uh to to really combat that and re recover from that um is you know is turning the truth on and gosh turning the truth on, so um turning the spotlight of truth on on those lies.
SPEAKER_02:Well then how okay, so if you're so ingrained in believing the lies, how what I'm trying to not sneeze here. How does the truth where where will truth penetrate? Dad gum allergies. Well, I excuse me, and I'm not cutting that out, so welcome to Allergyville. Flipping Texas, it's hot as summer. Spring. We're having spring weather. It's at uh 61 degrees.
SPEAKER_00:It should be winter. 9 20 p.m. at 61 degrees. Yeah, yeah. If you're curious. Um it is um, you know, in the last episode we mentioned Scott Peck's comment of mental health is a commitment to reality at all costs. And I mean, ultimately that's the answer. You know, spiritually, it it would be phrased a different way, but but it's the same answer. It's it is um being willing to confront the lies with truth and and to recognize in me that this is an extraordinarily broken part of my character.
SPEAKER_02:And if you're lying, I mean if you're in that bubble of lies, what finally breaks through? What finally makes the dent? What like what what did it for you?
SPEAKER_00:I think um repentance finally did it for me.
SPEAKER_02:Huh.
SPEAKER_00:That's interesting. And r recognizing my brokenness, recognizing and and stepping back and surveying the damage and allowing that to actually impact me. And it wasn't that that changed or started the process of change, it was it was the willingness to be honest with myself about the damage that I had caused. And that seeing the hurt that I had caused you was what really broke through my hard heart and defenses to lead me to depend to repentance. And God was at work in all that, but it was, I mean, repentance is a choice, just like sin is a choice, and the the choice to see and actually see the hurt and see the consequences of my sin. And to be broken by that.
SPEAKER_02:And so were you living with blinders on? Like were you self-deceived?
SPEAKER_00:That absolutely. That is the those are the scales that we grow on our eyes as we harden our hearts with sin. And and I don't want to over-spiritualize this, but at the same time we live in a spiritual reality. Sure. This this and so I I mean that that's the and that is huge a huge part of my journey is is trying and doing my best to become a real true follower and and image bearer of Christ. And along with many other things, I suck at that. And but at but at the same time, I mean that's where that's where God's grace comes in and and allows me the opportunity to repent and repent again and repent again and to continue to turn um and recognize that you know all of that, all of the hardness and the and the layers of of callous take time to come off. And gosh, it's yeah, it's a brutal process.
SPEAKER_02:Um You have to stop rationalizing, right? You have to stop denying the reality.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And it's and it's just that you know, it's being able and willing to sit in the pain long enough to allow that to begin to impact change.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that I mean that comes from our last episode where we talked about taking off the kid gloves, right? Which consequences, and that doesn't mean punching your spouse. Oh, there you go, have some pain. No, allow the pain of consequences to do the work. The consequences you lose. Relationship with me, and if you claim to love me, um, why are you treating me this way? Why do you walk away? Why are you you know why do you act all arrogant and pious and unwilling to put your hands down? So allow the consequences to speak for you, and yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Indeed.
SPEAKER_02:Indeed. When when you say that, I think you're saying our dog's name. Oh, which is N, the letter N and the letter D, which is for new dog. He's our cow dog.
SPEAKER_00:And we and just as another rabbit on that, we did not name him that. We we uh we rescued him or were given to him from somebody who rescued him. That was their name for him.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Now, you know, this whole topic of self-deception, it um on from my side, on the betrayed spouse side, and I hate to call it sides, but I don't know what else to call it. From my experience, my viewpoint, is um we can do the same thing. We can rationalize um our spouse's behaviors, and I did that a lot for you. And my friends would question me and I would excuse it, or oh, you just don't know him the way I know him, or um, you know, convince myself that oh, he'll get over it, oh, he'll change in time, oh, this or that or the other. Um never ever pinpointing the true, the putting the arrow on the bullseye, which I hope it has hit there now. And what's crazy is that we're we both claim to be Christ followers, we both claim to be Christian. And how in the world do we allow ourselves? I can speak from me, but how how do we allow ourselves, how did we allow ourselves to get where we got? Where I know for me, I stopped pursuing a real intimate relationship with God. For me, I would have, I would talk to him, I would occasionally, I would read my Bible, but I didn't know the Bible. Heck, I think I'm on my sixth year of reading through the Bible in a row. I've read through the Bible several times in the past, but six years in a row, I still read things going, holy smoking Joes. That's new. It hits me a different way, I'm in a different place. Um, I and I I'm doing that not to go, hey, look at me. I read through the Bible because I want to know the heart of God. I want to know who I'm gonna spend eternity with. I want to know my Heavenly Father, because that is the best. That's the best feeling, the best love and care that I know I will ever receive. And we are supposed to be that for each other here on earth as best we can as human beings, and the whole rationalization of things. Um, like for example, I'll give you an example. Um a husband might uh excuse their controlling behavior as, well, I'm the leader. Um, and according to scripture, I'm the leader, and they'll use Ephesians 5, 22 and 23. But ignoring, however, ignoring the the verse right before that, 522, 521, about mutual submission, where we submit to each other. And why would he say that first and then come after it? You know, have the oh, I mean, come on, and things like that that um in a Christian marriage is to me, I think that's abusive, in my opinion. Um so, and then just minimizing personal responsibility. Did you did you do that? Did you um well here you go, blame me for our marital issues while ignoring your own contribution, convincing yourself that you were doing God's work or um being the head of the household by correcting me?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, I've done that. Yes. If you would just do this, then I would be able to do that instead of me just doing you know, loving instead of just loving you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, or being the being an image bearer of Christ, right? Yeah, in spite of what loving everyone else does, right? Yep, yeah, and it just uh yeah baffles me. I wonder if we'll be able to answer the question does a liar know when they're lying? And define, I guess we'd have to define a liar. Are we talking about just a person who gets things wrong every once in a while? Could it be like our contractor down at the rent house up front who keeps saying he's gonna come pick up the stuff or whatever? And it's been how long?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, forever.
SPEAKER_02:It hasn't been forever. It's been a few months. Yeah, you know, they didn't clean up their trash, they didn't uh the that whole thing, and then oh yeah, I'll get it done. Oh yeah, I'll come back and get it painted, oh yeah, and here we are, months later, and it's still still not done. Does he know that he's lying? I wonder. I wonder. And so what does that do? So we may not be able to answer the question, but it erodes our trust, right? When a person just continues to lie, and I would say from my experience that you you fit the bill of two and three, maybe even one, maybe even all four. I mean, I think that um I think people can get so accustomed to lying to protect your image. You said something this morning that uh cracked me up. I laughed out loud for a minute and had to take a minute to uh laugh out loud on that. But what you said was something to the effect of um, and we were having, I thought a good conversation. Um it was it was a tough conversation. Um because I said something, I can't remember what it was, but you were it's I got the sense that you wanted to end the conversation, boom, just abruptly end the conversation. And and the way you do that is we're going, okay, and then boom, we're done. And I said, wait a second, wait, why are you stopping? This is this is we let's push through, let's talk it out. And you said something to the effect of because it reflects bad on me, or because it makes me look bad, or something like that. Do you remember what what you said? It was something to that effect. Yeah, it reflects badly on me. There you go. You know what? Right there, I think, might have been one of the first um truth-telling things you have said out in a in a conversation, uh intense conversation that we've had. First for me to hear something like that coming out of your mouth.
SPEAKER_00:Well, there you go. We're in 2026.
SPEAKER_02:Dude, we're not putting a time limit or whatever. Okay. So how does one stop? I mean, what what did it for you? What I I know you you've kind of highlighted some of these things, but if a if you were talking to not one thing.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it is one thing, but it's not one thing. It the the the starting point is repentance.
SPEAKER_02:How will a guy get to repentance?
SPEAKER_00:Well, if you you have to see the carnage, you have to see the impact.
SPEAKER_02:Well, what allows him to see that? What what breaks through that hard hardness of heart?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's different for other folks, or for you know, it's different for different people, but uh for me it was really beginning to understand and grasp the impact of the pain that I'd caused. And really experience it, really see it, really sit with it, and recognize that I did that. My sin, my lies, my deception, my broken character, my choices had caused all that.
SPEAKER_02:What broke through that? Because it's been that had to been recent.
SPEAKER_00:It's it's been an ongoing process. I mean, it is uh and I've used the analogy before, you know, in plowing a field, and it just you know, you just have to keep plowing.
SPEAKER_02:Right, but in plowing the field, even the first pass, there's a difference. And in the second pass, there's even a more pronounced difference. And in the third pass, it's even more pronounced. So did the plow get stuck? Because this has been years, years and years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't really have an answer for that. Um I wish I did. I wish I could say, well, it was this, this, and this. I I don't know. I mean, I I I have I have hooked up the plow in the in our back pasture and run it and run it and run it and not seen hardly any difference.
SPEAKER_02:It's because we don't have that's not a real that's like a hundred-year-old plow. It's not even I wouldn't even call it a real plow when you gotta freaking put however many things of cinder block on there, weights to hold it down.
SPEAKER_00:It's but you weren't using a good tool. That's how hard our ground is. And and perhaps, I mean, perhaps that was it. Perhaps I I didn't want to cut that deep, you know. I didn't want to see it. That self-deception, it it was a hard thing to break through. And but it was something that I was determined, and and I believe God was determined to break through.
SPEAKER_02:And yeah, God doesn't quit on us, right? God doesn't quit on us. So, and I'm I'm good, we're good on time here, so I'm gonna wrap us up if you're cool with that. Um, because I think I mean I I have a bunch of questions, but I think it would it might be a little too much for you, and we'll just get the I don't knows more of that. And yeah, welcome to my world. So there's a movie out there, man. I don't know who it what the title of it is, but there's a quote, and the it's a grandma talking to her, or maybe even a mom talking to her son, it may be a grandma talking to her grandson, and it's a guy who's just this bully, arrogant dude. And she's talking to him about spiritual things about the Lord, and she says this sometimes the devil allows people to live a life free of trouble because he doesn't want them turning to God. Their sin is like a jail cell, accepted, it's all nice and comfy, and there doesn't seem to be any need to leave. The door is wide open till one day time runs out, the cell door slams shut, and suddenly it's too late. And that, my friends, I have lived this watching what I thought my husband lived free of trouble. I didn't know what was going on inside of him, but he was out doing whatever he wanted. You were out doing pretty much whatever you wanted to do. Um and not realizing he was in a jail cell, his sin was keeping him in a jail cell. He accepted it. He made it all nice and comfy, and he had no reason to leave. I mean, he could have left at any time the door was wide open. You could have left at any time. And I'm the reason I share this is because guys, I don't want your time to run out before you get on the track to healing and recovery. There is so much help out there. Don't wait until the door slams and it's too late. Make the step. Man up. Break the cycle. And step out in faith. There are people out there who will love you through this. I just ask you to please stop hurting your wife, your kids, all in the name of what? For what? For what did you do it, John? I'm asking that as a question to be answered, not to be stared at me. For what?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I wish I could give you an answer. I mean, it was selfishness and pride, and uh, you know, yeah, what all that how'd that work for all those empty promises that sin gives us?
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. And did you get all those?
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_02:What? A good life? But you were having so much fun. Did it profit you?
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You have the chance now, if you're listening. I bel I think you know when you're lying. Most people know. If we have the Holy Spirit, your heart may be nearly as hard as stone, but he's still working. God doesn't quit. The Holy Spirit doesn't give up. If you have guilt, if you feel guilt and shame, the Holy Spirit's at work. That's your wake-up call. That's your wake-up call. Please don't wait. Don't let the door slam on forgiveness, on health, on wholeness, on healing. It's available. What made you wait so long, John?
SPEAKER_00:A lot of brokenness, pride, and stubborn.
SPEAKER_02:I hope one day, I hope one day you can really dig into that. Because I think there's some stuff in you that can help the people on the other side of these microphones. Coming from your voice, not just me. You have a lot to offer. And until you can recognize it in you and figure out the answers to these questions. Do you even ask yourself these questions? Or is it just me?
SPEAKER_00:I ask myself a lot of questions. Sometimes they aren't the same ones that you ask. That's why when you ask me some of them, I give you the deer in the headlights. Because it's a new question.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my goodness. That's funny.
SPEAKER_00:And sometimes not one that I wanted to hear.
SPEAKER_02:I want to answer that. Get out of my boat. Splash. If you hear a splash, he threw me out the boat. That's on the last episode. That analogy, by the way, if you want to hear it, fast forward to I don't know, halfway through, maybe, and we'll get you there. But all right. There's help out there, y'all. I encourage you to get in community. Um also want to remind you, John, that and guys out, everyone out there, we can all use this. Sorry is a sentence. Repair is a process. I want to see a process working. I don't want to hear a sentence. It gets old and sorry stops. Sorry stops and changes. So, my opinion, for the most part, I think people who lie know that they're lying. Um, I think with anything, it becomes an addiction, it becomes a habit that um they've just told this lie for so long, they it becomes second nature. Um I have a relative who is masterful at lying. And um she's losing her mind and doesn't even know really that she's lying for sure. Um and but she became a pathological habitual liar from just self-deception. Lying to you have to lie to yourself first before you can lie to anyone else. I'm gonna read this quote one more time by the Russian uh You said it right once.
SPEAKER_00:That's good enough. There you go.
SPEAKER_02:I said his name at the beginning, Fyodor, Fyodor Dostoevsky, whatever. Anywho, here's what he says. A man who lies to himself and believes his own lies becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself and for others. When he has no respect for anyone, he can no longer love. And in him, he yields to his impulses, indulges in the lowest form of pleasure, and behaves in the end like an animal in satisfying his vices. And it all comes from lying. It all comes from lying to others and to himself. Man, why would you want to walk down that path? You have a choice, you have a choice. Take the opportunity today to uh turn it around. No, just say no. No's a complete sentence. Gain your self-respect back, love yourself in a healthy way. I believe in you. You can do this. Get help. There's help out there. You can find help on our website at hurtmeetshealer.com. We're available to help. Just reach out. You can contact us from our website. Um, we can get you in touch with others, we can get you in touch with groups and community. Um, so we're here for you. Let us know how we can uh help you be a healthy individual. And until next time, y'all keep the sunny side up and the greasy side down, as my daddy used to say. I think he still does say it. And God bless. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember, you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at www.hurtmeetshealer.com. Until next time. God bless.
