Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
Hurt people, hurt people. Are you ready to work through the pain of your past? Healing is possible! Join us on our healing journey, a journey to freedom, where you'll get straight truth from genuine people.
We use our story and experience to help others walk through the trauma of intimate betrayal. This is raw and real talk from average people who are walking the path of healing.
Kim is a Certified Professional Mentor™ through BraveHearts University, and a Certified Christian Life Coach through the Board of Christian Life Coaching.
Hurt Meets Healer Podcast
I'm Your Spouse & Partner, Please Include Me
****Life Unscripted: Our stories, unfiltered. We are walking through life, sharing our stories. If at any point you become triggered by this conversation, please care for yourself.
You can end the sexual acting out and still be living a double life. We open up about the painful space where porn stops but secrecy survives, and how that “respectable betrayal” quietly starves a relationship of safety, partnership, and desire. From hidden financial moves and unilateral decisions to trickle truth and using recovery as a shield, we trace how old dopamine loops find new disguises when accountability is missing.
We get honest about shame and inadequacy, the posture of entitlement in recovery clothing, and why defensiveness during hard conversations sends one message: it’s not safe to lean on me. Then we get practical. We outline clear non‑negotiables that rebuild trust in real time: full financial transparency, the 24‑hour rule for significant decisions, daily or weekly check‑ins, open devices, and proactive disclosure of anything that feels tempting to hide. We also draw a crucial distinction between honesty and transparency—one answers when asked, the other goes first so a partner doesn’t have to live like a detective.
This conversation challenges the myth that sobriety equals safety. Real repair begins when the double life ends across every domain—money, time, communication, and decisions—and when amends show up as consistent, boring integrity. If you’ve felt excluded, minimized, or asked to “trust the process” while staying in the dark, you’ll find language, tools, and validation here. And if you’re the wayward partner, you’ll hear a path forward grounded in humility, inclusion, and daily choices that make protection more than a promise.
If this resonates, share it with someone who needs language for what they’re living, subscribe for the next episode on regrets, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your story can change. Start by ending the secrecy—together.
Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.
Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2025, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.
Hi, and welcome to the Hurt Meets Healer Podcast. I'm Kim Caps, your host and president of Hurt Meets Healer LLC, a business tree, business plus ministry that was created to help individuals and couples are walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Hey y'all, welcome, welcome back. We are on episode eight. And this one is titled, I'm your spouse and partner. Please include me. If uh you've ever felt left out, and uh especially uh following betrayal, where decisions have been made um behind your back or without your knowledge, and you're getting the story secondhand, uh, this might be for you. So welcome. Um this episode looks at and and exposes the uncomfortable reality that many addicts replace their sexual betrayal, their their hab, their activities, their actions with uh what's called quote, respectable betrayal. In other words, uh financial secrecy or really hiddenness, um, not being transparent, secrecy in anything, um, emotional manipulation and um absolute control, unilateral control. And then they become shocked when the marriage still dies. True recovery isn't just stopping the porn, it's stopping all of the betrayals, it's stopping the double life, period. No ifs, ands, or buts. So welcome, John.
SPEAKER_02:Well, good evening.
SPEAKER_04:He is back with us today. Um, you have anything to lead in?
SPEAKER_02:Uh only that this this will probably be a difficult one for me because I'm very guilty in this area, and uh so still an area that I'm struggling in.
SPEAKER_04:So well, you should have some great um helpful tips and or helpful you know comments and and knowledge and wisdom that you're gaining. Um I I expect uh some good tidbits from you. So what happens is uh it's it's like a new betrayal after the old one stops. For me, it was um I you had said, well, I stopped, I stopped porn. And it's a miracle that I stopped porn, yet the secrecy didn't stop, the lying didn't stop, the exclusion, making decisions uh without my knowledge. Um none of none of it. That that's kind of overarching little statement there. Let me put my uh language like let me just say this all again. Uh that all continued. Uh do you have any thoughts or explanations? Not even maybe not even an explanation, but your experience as to well, are you open to a couple of questions? Sure. Did you think or believe that because you stopped looking at porn you were healed?
SPEAKER_02:From from the porn, yes. And um I I really thought that well, I don't say that I thought that. I didn't grasp how deep my brokenness was. And so I didn't realize how deep the healing needed to be. So I don't know if that's a good answer.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's it's um it's an answer. I my I have um experiences that tell me more about what was going on uh in that time. I heard I had a Saul de Paul conversion experience. I'm healed. My brother says it's a miracle. Um what do you say to that?
SPEAKER_02:Well, like I said, I I do believe that that uh it it was a miraculous freeing from the grip of porn. Um but like I said, that didn't heal me from all of the other brokenness.
SPEAKER_04:Right. So then which leads me to another question Was porn addiction like the overarching addiction in your life, or was it something else?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I yeah. Um was it something else?
SPEAKER_04:So has no one ever is are these the first is this is a verse you've ever been asked these questions? No one's asked your story, no one's asked for you to share. Sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm I just sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, uh that doesn't even answer the question.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I've I've shared my story. I had I was I was involved in multiple um addictions, compulsions, uh just extreme uh delusion in very many areas of my life. So okay, that was one of them.
SPEAKER_04:So was porn more of a medication?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think all of them were medications.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. You you think what you want to think, and I think what I want to think. So there's this um dry drunk versus dry addict, same disease, new costume. So you have sobriety from uh the sex and approval, but it doesn't that didn't cure your character defects, did it?
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_04:So they were still lying, hiding, manipulating unilateral decisions, which we've talked about this before, where it hit gives that dopamine hit or something in the brain that um is similar to an addiction hit when you're acting out, gives that same hey, because you're still acting in secrecy. And to me, secrecy is the betrayal, right? Anything you do that is a secret from your spouse, unless it is a birthday party, it's a betrayal, and even sometimes a birthday party is because some people don't like surprise birthday parties. So um, why to me that hurt? Oh my gosh, doubly, triply worse, because that was something that continued on. It it felt like um a whole nother affair, like a second affair going on, and you were having it with yourself. You had all these secrets, um trickle out, my gosh, dripped, we'll just call it dripped disclosure. And it's you're you were still living a separate life and treating me like I didn't get a vote. And I want my um, I want my life to matter. I want my heart to matter. I want to know that my knowledge, my wisdom matters as well. And so that um man, it's like you just turn to a plan B. Well, I stopped the porn. Okay. I'm just gonna stab you in other ways. Anywho, so there's a few uh tactics, common post post-acting out manipulation tactics that are um listed. Financial secrecy. Um we had that before the stuff was disclosed. I can't remember if I found anything because I went on a massive hunt and search because I knew you weren't telling me the truth. And I knew I had to go out and uncover. Well, I thought I did at the time because I knew you weren't telling me the truth. And I I didn't know you were just clamming up every time I would ask a question. You would actually Darvo me, which is the next one. Deny, attack, reverse victim, and offender. And then the trickle truth, the giving me a little bit here and there, bread crumbing to, you know, kind of smooth things over for a little bit. Uh, using recovery as a shield. I'm sober. How dare you not trust me? And you didn't say those exact words, but there were some things that uh you did say that were um I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02:I'm very I'm not proud of my recovery journey uh at all. So if you know if you are interested in the things not to do, then I can help with that.
SPEAKER_04:There you go. His number 555D, you know, I'm not even gonna go there. And then making decisions alone and then presenting them as done deals, that just happened recently. And um I have asked for years that please, if if it includes me in any way, shape, fashion, or form, which it will because we're supposed to be partners and it's supposed to be a partnership marriage, please allow me to have a decision and a say and a choice in the matter. And this has happened recently that I didn't get a choice in the matter. I didn't even get the question. So the uh the addict has a playbook. I I don't, I think it's I don't, I think it's just this natural human thing. I think it's not okay, I'm gonna write A, B, C, D, E, and F, and here's what I'm gonna do to protect myself. Now, no, we are born into sin and holy smokes. It's um that whole why is it so hard to change? Those episodes that we talked about. Um they which one, and we're looking at our note sheet here. Um, which ones of those did you believe? I'll read them. I'm protecting you from stress, which means I don't want to be questioned.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that I mean, that was my go-to. Was the the first one and the last one were the ones that um were the big ones.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Number three, uh, you know, I I I wouldn't say I don't think I've been there, but oh what?
SPEAKER_04:That okay, hang on, let me yeah, I can say we need to read these.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm the one who fixed myself. Um yeah, I I don't think that at all.
SPEAKER_04:Well, not today. When uh this journey began and before D-Day. Uh yeah, you did entitlement, really? You didn't have entitlement?
SPEAKER_02:Well, not clothing.
SPEAKER_04:In recovery clothing.
SPEAKER_02:I I did have throughout this seven-year crazy journey. Well, not longer than that.
SPEAKER_04:But well, that's since our D-Day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um well, how many D-Days?
SPEAKER_02:What I mean is I I have struggled with entitlement for longer than that. But uh yeah, I I just don't. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So the first one's I'm protecting you from stress, which translates means I don't want to be questioned. The second one is you'll just get triggered or angry or mad. Put in whatever word you want in there, which translated means I don't want to deal with your feelings. Heck, I can't even feel my feelings. Why do I want to deal with your feelings? The third one, I'm the one who fixed myself. So I get to run things now. How I see this, which translated is entitlement in recovery clothing, is I read all these books. I know what I'm supposed to do now. I've listened to podcasts, I know what I'm supposed to do now. I've talked to so in one person, my brother. I've talked to that's the only person you talk to. I there were a couple other guys, but you didn't share, you never opened up about what was going on. The truth, the truth was not revealed until and I still question if it's fully been revealed just a couple years ago. How crazy is that? How crazy is that that you would continue these things? Uh yeah, that's probably for a whole nother episode. And then the fourth one is deep fear. If I include you fully, you'll see I'm not good enough. How could I see that you're not good enough when you behave like you were all the bomb diggy bomb? Oh, I'm not supposed to say that really. Can I say that word? You were just the uh what's the big you're the big dude on campus. You were all that in a box of chocolates. That's how you showed up. So how would I see that you're not good enough? You were like right all the time. I was wrong. Everything was my fault.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there's there's so much. Um what is the word I'm looking for? Um inadequacy. Uh I I think that might be the word, but there's one other word I was thinking that um I mean there's shame in there too, but the feeling of inadequacy and um yeah I don't I don't know what other word to use there, but just you know, that feeling of never thinking that I'm good enough and trying to posture to be good enough. And so the the uh overconfidence to overcome the lack of confidence, and and so it's Who told you you weren't good enough? Well, I think it was I I mean I think it's the enemy all the time.
SPEAKER_04:It's okay, you can blame Satan, but Satan the the message did he show up in your life and say, John, you're not good enough.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, but the message that I got growing up was that I'm not good enough. You know, the shame of being poor, the sh, you know, all of the different um, you know, the shame of all what happened in the family. What's the shame of being poor?
SPEAKER_04:What what there's no shame in being poor? It it well, you can create it's what you think of it.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And that's what we thought of it. That's what I thought of it.
SPEAKER_04:So did you ever, ever in your life go, oh my gosh, I don't have to think this way? I can absolutely stop. I can change the pattern and the trajectory of my life just by changing how I think. Um you read the seven habits of highly successful people, whatever that book is. You read so many things, yet where's the implementation of this stuff? This is this whole I fixed myself. You read whoever, you fixed yourself a lot along the way. You didn't need anyone's help. You didn't need my help to go, dude, you're hurting me. Please stop hurting me. Let's go to counseling. Oh, well, I'm not going back to him. If you want to go back, you're gonna go back by yourself. And then not even finding help.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you I have sucked at implementing. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:And that's one of the things Well, I think why that's probably why you skipped over number three, because you live in entitlement. You are the embodiment of entitlement in recovery clothing. All right. Well, I will say this this is that's been my experience of you for the past 30 plus years. Especially these past seven. Well, I've done all this, well, I've done all this, well, I've done all this. Okay, moving on. Otherwise, this may get really not where we want it to go. Did you know that you can't break a pattern you're unwilling to see, or that you refuse to see?
SPEAKER_02:I yes. Isn't that fascinating? I I knew that. I well, I didn't knew that. I know that now.
SPEAKER_04:Right?
SPEAKER_02:Because there were so many things I was unwilling to see before.
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm. And by the way, I'm gonna add a fifth one onto the addict's justification playbook. This is his internal or her internal, whoever it is, uh justification playbook of why why I do what I do. I call it the why behind the what. What behind the why? It's because people who lack accountability think everything is an attack. If you are unwilling to accept accountability, For hurting someone, for your own behavior, for the way that you spoke to someone, for the way that you um betrayed a vow or covenant or a contract. If you're unwilling to uh accept accountability and responsibility, you will believe everything is an attack. Everyone's against me. My dad used to say, um, nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna eat some worms. That's because, you know, everybody's attacking me. I can't, uh, I just can't get anything right. So there's just a little side note tidbit. How how has this type of behavior, John, kept our marriage in intensive care?
SPEAKER_02:Do do do do do do do do I think it's um or at least what I've observed is that it's hard for you to get your footing and trust that things are gonna be different. So that that that would be my answer.
SPEAKER_04:Mm-hmm. Okay, thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sure there's more, but that's that's my biggest observation is that it just feels hopeless at times that things are gonna be different.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so for me, when I'm kept in secrecy, when things happen behind my back, that is a major, major um stab wound for me. Uh, because that's been our my life for 37 years, is hiddenness and not from me. When transparency shows up, not necessarily even honesty. Transparency is going, hey, this binged on my phone. I wanted to show it to you. Honesty is answering a question, being truthful, being honest when I ask you a question. Transparency is showing up proactively to say, hey, I got what I think could be an inappropriate email, and I just want to show, I don't I don't want to hide anything from you. Hey, I'm gonna have a doctor's visit today. I would love for you to sit in with me on this. Here's what we're gonna do. What about this? What about that? Transparency helps, hiddenness does not.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:It keep what what happened and what continues to happen is that it keeps me in a hyper-vigilant state because the secrecy hasn't ended. And when can I be uh let my guard down that the secrecy has ended? And and I'm not asking you to answer, oh, on March the 8th. It's gonna be a while if if our relationship survives, it'll it's gonna be a while because the hole that has been dug of deception is so deep. Ooh, that's a good the deep, dark hole of deception. It's gonna be hard. And honestly, I don't know that you have the huevos to persevere. You've you've quit. I've experienced um the rejection and uh lack of pursuit and uh the given upness. I know it's not a word out there, which and that's why intimacy is dead. It stays dead. You can't, you don't want to be with someone who's hiding stuff from you. There's no closeness there, there's no safety. And you know what? Most divorces happen at this during this phase, where there's I I call it fake recovery. It's okay, so you stopped looking at porn, but you're not getting to the root cause of why you even were looking at porn, why you were such an approval addict, why you were um intimacy anorexic, why you had this entitlement mentality. You weren't digging into that. You just thought, well, in my opinion, my experience and what you said to me was I'm healed. I'm healed, I'm healed. I remember those first couple months, those first few months. I'm healed. And yet you would stare me straight in the face, straight in the eyes. I remember you turned. We were sitting in bed one night, and you turned and looked at me and said, I would rather lose you than lie to you, right? I would rather lose you than lie to you. It was a quote out of a book we were reading. Um less than 10 hours later. That was a lie. You had lied to me. It's yeah. How do you uh how do you want you? You can't I can't want to be with someone like that. I can't want there is no desire in my heart for a man who continues to make decisions behind my back. And then tell me after the fact, oh yeah, by the way, I did this. That went, especially, especially after I have requested, I have put it in writing, I have, oh my gosh, over and over again, requested, requested, requested, put it in writing, put it in writing, put it in writing, to not have my choices taken away. And yet that still continues to happen. So if you're wondering, I'm talking to John, y'all. So bear with me for a minute. This real life here. Welcome, welcome to our hurt meeting the healer. If you're wondering why intimacy is so far off at the moment, that might answer the question. All right, and here's some um, here's some hard truth. Stopping the acting out, your sexual acting out, that was just a teeny tiny step. I wouldn't even equate that to step one. That was just part of the problem. Stopping the lying, the hiding, the manipulation, and the decision making without including your spouse, that's where recovery really begins. Because it's not the porn, porn is a huge, huge problem. It's not the um seeking out women for it. It's what drives that. What causes you to go do that? What caused you to go seek other women to satisfy your needs, to satisfy your approval addiction, to fall down at your feet after hearing the lies that you told them? It's all the dopamine hits from lying, hiding, manipulating. That's some kind of hit in the brain. And if you're still doing these things, by the way, you haven't put your hands down, you haven't surrendered, and guess what? You just changed drugs. You just changed drugs. You were getting dopamine hit over here, now you're getting it over here. So what what are some for me some non-negotiables? Right? So here's what honesty would look like. I like transparency, but because honesty requires me to ask the question first. And we all know, well, we all know, I know, you don't like my questioning. Transparency. What some of my non-negotiables would be, would be full financial transparency. Which I hope it's there. I can go and look in our QuickBooks at any time. I can go to the bank. I have full access to everything. I didn't before. I found hidden accounts, blah, blah, blah, um, hidden credit cards. Oh my gosh. And then there's the 24-hour rule. No significant decision, which this is what I've requested. Please don't make any significant decision that will affect me without talking to me first. I guess I don't understand why that's so hard for you. And then I've requested daily check-ins. Heck, I would a weekly check-in. And here's where the transparency is as well. Radical transparency check-ins. Here's my phone. I want you to go through all my text messages. Here's my calendar, which I see your calendar. I can see all the financial dealings. Here's my iPad. Here's my computer. Here's what's going on. I don't want to have to search for stuff. I'm not my job is not to be Inspector Cluso. It is your responsibility to be transparent with me. Not me to be inspecting and being the detective. Sure. And then telling on yourself the moment you feel the urge to hide something, even if it's tiny, even if it's small. Transparency. Maybe we should have a blackboard. And remember how we used to have to stay after school and write on the chalkboard? Transparency, transparency, transparency.
SPEAKER_02:No, I've never had to do that.
SPEAKER_04:Oh no, you were the perfect student, weren't you? And then I don't necessarily um want written amends, but I want to see changed behavior. I want to see changed behavior. I want to see, um, especially for all of this abysmal. I won't even call it an effort at recovery. I don't know what it's been. It has not been an effort. It has been a travesty, is what it's been, in my opinion. Um, a rejection. That's a good word. Begin making amends. Figure out what that is. I shouldn't have to tell you. Sorry, dropping my pens. I'm not throwing anything at him, y'all. We're safe. So, some things that for the addict, for the um betrayer out there, some things that might help you. And here's guys, guys, guys, empathy, sympathy, care, and concern for your spouse goes a long way. Saying something like, oh my gosh, you know what? I realize that stopping porn, stopping the affair, stopping acting out, I know that's not enough. I know that's not enough. I have still been making decisions alone. I've been hiding things because I'm so afraid of losing control. However, here's what I'm willing to change and do from now on. I'm willing to include you in everything. No, no holding back, no holes barred. How I mean, that's pretty easy. Well, I guess it's easy for me to say because I'm not that person. But if you can find it in your heart, boy, I would, I would really encourage the wayward spouses to really, really do a deep dive study on humility, on just humbleness, on putting your hands down, loving your spouse. They didn't cause this, y'all. They didn't cause it. And then for me, what I would say to John is your sobriety doesn't mean anything to me if I'm still not safe in day-to-day life with you. Sobriety is nothing, it's a farce because I'm still not safe with you. So how do we know when when um things start turning? Is when well and because I'm sure you're asking the question, how do I know? What do I what do I do? Do you we already do this, we have a password sheet, and so I have all the passwords, um, and I have all the bank logins. Um, and here's what else you can do is pro proactively, preemptively come to me with decisions. Not after you're caught, not after the deal is done. Because secrecy is in itself an addiction. Again, it's that that dopamine hit, it's all the secrecy, secrecy, secrecy. A lot of um, a lot of the betrayed spouses say that the first time they actually felt genuine attraction return for them, for their spouse, was when the wayward spouse came and said, Hey, here's my phone, here's my email, here's all the credit card statements, ask me anything, anytime, forever. Forever. Huh. I have not heard those words. Because that ask me anything, nope, that's not gonna happen with Mr. Caps here, and I think I think the couple of things to know or to for the hiddenest side of things is it's a gut punch for us. Why do you want to hit your spouse? Why do you want to continue to punch your spouse? We're supposed to be a team, yet I wasn't even consulted. That's just another betrayal. Why does that continue? You think I'll give you a few minutes or a couple of seconds to think about that? I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on on this.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, part of it is learning how to be safe and feel safe. And, you know, that was the early story of trickling out. You know, it would feel safe to share, and then it would blow up, and then I, you know, then I would be scared again. And you know, this whole cycle of safety and and uh learning to navigate that and understanding that I need to provide my own safety.
SPEAKER_04:And so you felt unsafe because I would get angry at your betrayal of me.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Holy freaking balls. And so, and I mean, I recognize on this side of it that quite ironic, very unhealthy. But I mean, that's just uh That's victim mentality. That's a yeah, that's the journey.
SPEAKER_04:And so you've been like hiking this thing for a while. On this journey of victimhood, yet you weren't the victim. Sorry, I interrupted. That's okay, I was gonna continue. Were you? Yeah. Are you sure? All right. So what do we do? How do you how do I as a spouse I can't make you include me? I can't, obviously, here we are, nearly 37 years later, still not include me, still making decisions, still out there doing stuff. I I don't know what else to do. I mean, there's I I've requested transparency, I've requested um to have a safe partner for honesty. Um, I've requested the 24-hour rule, I've requested check-ins. What do you do? Let me ask you, John, what would you do if I was doing this to you? Where would you draw the line? When would you say enough is enough?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. That's a hard question. I recognize how hard it is.
SPEAKER_04:Do you? Yet you're still sitting here. We're still Work on this podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:I th I'm gonna go out on a limb. I'm gonna believe, I I believe, I'm not gonna believe, I really believe in my heart that if the shoe had been on the other foot, if if I had betrayed you, oh you would have been gone. You would not have put up with a tenth, oh, I would say a hundredth of what I've put up with you.
SPEAKER_05:You didn't put up with you you couldn't handle my anger over being betrayed. How could you handle a betrayal? You can't even handle a tone. We talked about that on the last couple episodes. You got a tongue. How would you handle me lying straight up lying to you repeatedly for years?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_05:Really? You don't? You don't even have a clue? Not even a guess. Do you know you? Do I know you better than you know you?
SPEAKER_02:I I don't think so, but oh really?
SPEAKER_04:I can pull a Ron White on you. Let me tell you something about you that you don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I am thankful that I'm not in that position to have to figure that out, but yeah, because that's not who I am.
SPEAKER_04:You know, we all have the ability to have an affair. We all have that ability within us. It's just that most of us aren't willing to. There's the few, it's actually a growing number, sadly, who actually are willing to cross the line and go there. Well, we're all capable of it. And if we don't recognize our what we're capable of, we can cause a lot of collateral damage in and around us. And so um I think we're at a good stopping point. I have a couple more points I want to make. Do you have anything that okay? You're welcome to speak to these next things that I say.
SPEAKER_00:Go ahead. I'll I'll track with you.
SPEAKER_04:I'll hang up and listen.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_04:All right. So I'm gonna speak to the men here, the the uh wayward spouses who are men. Because men and women, we are different. We think different, or we express ourselves differently. Men, when your wife expresses herself and you get defensive or dismissive, here's the message you're sending her. It's not safe for you to lean on me. I can't protect you because I'm too busy protecting myself. I want to say this again. Men, when your wife expresses herself and she may be angry, she may have, oh my Lord, a tone. She may even be sarcastic, she may be angry, and you dismiss that, you minimize it, you become defensive. The message that sends her is it is not safe for you to lean on me, and I can't protect you because I'm too busy protecting myself. Man, that will ruin a relationship. When you set that on repeat, that'll ruin a relationship. Just that alone. Just that alone. I mean, nothing erodes attraction faster than it feeling like you have to teach another flipping adult how to behave like a thoughtful, self-aware, and emotionally mature person.
SPEAKER_05:Why do I have to teach you how to be an adult, dude? Grow up.
SPEAKER_04:Grow up. And then this one last thing that I just want to read to you that is not mine, is not original. Um, I just found it. Is this when a man betrays a woman, he shifts his position from protector to perpetrator. He is no longer her source of safety. Now, he's her greatest source of pain. Instead of him shielding and protecting her from being wounded by this wild world, he wounds her from within. Men your job is to protect a woman from others. That's your job is to be the covering. The covering for your wife. And you fail to understand that even more important than that, your most important role is to protect her from the darkness that can be inflicted from your own ego and unconsciousness. Nothing wounds a woman deeper than being harmed by the hands that hold her heart. Nothing wounds a woman deeper than being harmed by the hands that hold her heart. What do you say, John? We're gonna wrap it up.
SPEAKER_02:That's heavy stuff.
SPEAKER_04:It is, it is heavy, it is deep, and you know what? It leads into our next episode. Let's talk about regrets, because that's where we're headed. Regrets. I've had a few. So episode nine, y'all, will be let's talk about regrets. Hang in. It's uh no telling what's gonna come up on that one. This one has been uh deep, and uh there's a lot of information out there. A lot of information. And ladies and gentlemen, my goodness, especially for the um wayward spouse, y'all. If you want change, if you want true help and love and intimacy, you must include your spouse. You must. In your recovery journey and what's going on with your counselor, they should not have to be detectives. Yet the behaviors and actions that you're exuding put us in uh this fight or flight and put us in hypervigilance, where we I hate to tell you guys, but most women God put this um awesome, awesome gift of awareness. And we can sense when something's off, we can sense when there's lying, when there's hiddenness. Because uh just like a mama bear protects her cub from danger, we know danger, we sense danger. It's a god-given thing that He put in us. Be her safety net. Don't go from protector to perpetrator. Protect your wife's heart, hold it with care. It is a delicate, delicate and highly um it requires high responsibility. Step up and be that man. You can do it. You just have to do it. Stop messing around. Thinking you're all that, John. You're a box of chocolates. All right, guys, we're gonna wrap it up. Hey, thanks for joining us tonight. Any last words from you? Oh, any?
SPEAKER_02:Nope.
SPEAKER_04:All right, like they can't hear your head shaking.
SPEAKER_02:Get the rocks in there, and then I can hear on the inside when I shake it.
SPEAKER_04:Right. All right, y'all. Until next time when we talk about regrets. Y'all love each other. Include each other, work on partnership. And uh we'll talk about regrets next. Until then, y'all. God bless. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember, you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at www.hurtmeetshealer.com. Until next time. God bless.
