Safety First, part 2

Safety doesn’t come back because time passes, it comes back when your body gets real evidence that danger is over. We sit down for a raw, practical talk about betrayal trauma and why infidelity and sexual betrayal can leave the betrayed spouse stuck in hypervigilance, intrusive thoughts, anxiety, and a nervous system that refuses to settle even when the unfaithful partner says “I’m trying.”

We dig into what actually helps restore the conditions for safety: genuine care, compassion, understanding, and empathy. Not performative apologies, not pressure to “forgive and forget,” and definitely not defensiveness. We also unpack attunement, the skill of staying present with your partner’s pain without making it about your own discomfort, and we name the subtle behaviors that read as unsafe in real life, like minimizing, blame shifting, eye rolling, secretive phone patterns, and shutting down hard conversations.

We connect the dots between the amygdala (your brain’s alarm system), panic, and the way unprocessed trauma keeps showing up until it’s addressed. Then we move into action: boundaries, self-care, trauma-informed counseling or coaching, and betrayal trauma support groups that validate instead of shame. We also say this clearly: your healing does not require your partner’s participation, even though relationship repair does require empathy and accountability.

If this resonates, share it with someone who needs language for what they’re living, then subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what safety looks like for you today.

Thank you for listening! For more information about us and the services we offer, visit www.hurtmeetshealer.com.

Intro & Outro music written, performed, and produced by Kim Capps.

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or professional advice. The views expressed by the Host or any Guest(s) are strictly their own and in no way constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Copyright ©️ 2026, Hurt Meets Healer, LLC. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Welcome And Safety First

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hi, and welcome to the Hurt Me Taylor Podcast. I'm Kim Caps, your host and president of Hurt Meet Taylor LLC, a business tree, business plus ministry that was created to help individuals and couples walking through the devastating impact of sexual addiction and infidelity. Thanks for joining me today. Hey y'all, and welcome back to the Hurt Meets Healer podcast. We are on episode 17. Safety first is what I'm calling this one. It's going to be part two of where I uh started last week talking about safety. And um, interestingly enough, John is here.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

The most unsafe person at times.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

You know, uh we we are all unsafe at times. And uh yeah. And I I came up with this saying. Well, it's probably not my saying. I'm sure somebody said it at some point in the world, somewhere. However, I'm uh claiming it because I said it the other day. And I don't know if I heard it or or what. But oh, and we're recording in a different place as well. So we're we're not in our normal studio. So if things sound a little weird, well, bear with us. They are. We should be back. Uh well, we'll see. We'll see when we can get back over there. Um, and here's the sentence wounded people act wonky. Wounded people act wonky. And last last time I talked about how empathy and compassion from the unfaithful spouse are key ways that they can help restore the conditions. Restore the conditions. Now understand, hear my words, for safety. Not that that restores safety. There's there's it's a process, right? So healing is a process, it's not a um once and done deal, it's a journey. And without the these key ways, the nervous system, our nervous system as the um hurt hurting spouse, the wounded spouse, we cannot fully shift from uh keeping ourselves protected to repairs. And so you have you're welcome to step in at any time on that or or not.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

When you say repairs, are you talking about receiving repairs?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Receiving repairs.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

You said we can't shift our nervous system from protection to repairs.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

And I'm just curious if you're to participating in repair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Correct, correct. Okay. Just making sure that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, because I can't I'll just use us because that's the only, you know, I mean, I have other examples, but I'm legally bound to not use them. So guess what? It's us. Well, this is what it uh this whole podcast is us. So when I'm in protective mode, right, as I have been for a season. Most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Um it kind of feels like the Stanley Cup season.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Gosh,

What Betrayal Trauma Does

SPEAKER_00 3:45

no kidding. Every day, yeah. Brutal. I don't want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Yeah, it is brutal. A lot of pain. This is what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Bucket of suck.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Painful, yeah, intense.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah. Well, it's so betrayal trauma. If for those of y'all who have not studied betrayal trauma, it is a profound psychological injury that occurs when someone you depend on for emotional, physical, or relational security, such as we do with our spouses, violates that trust through infidelity, sexual betrayal, deception, or other secretive behaviors. I call it uh, I call infidelity, it's the keeping of secrets. And there's other um places out there that call that the very same thing. It's it's a keeping of secrets, and it's it's not like just a single trauma, traumatic event. It often involves shattered attachment because that's how when you're getting to know someone, you develop an attachment to that person.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And so, and it involves that being shattered. It also involves gaslighting and the ongoing sense that my reality and safety have been just flipped on its head, been upended by the very person that I believed to be my safe haven. And when the unfaithful spouse fails to show genuine care, and this has been demonstrated through um many, many studies, through many, many counseling and coaching sessions, they have actually studied the brain. When the unfaithful spouse fails to show genuine care, compassion, understanding, and empathy, the trauma does not resolve and frequently intensifies. And I know for me, separation

Separation And The Meaning Of Scars

SPEAKER_00 6:00

was a game changer. Because my that was, I remember the first time that I got over the guilt, the shame I felt that oh, we can't separate, we can't, uh. I'm like, wait a second, uh, I need this. And and we separated for a time. And I remember just being able to mentally relax, physically relax. There was the pressure was gone. The pressure to be different, be healed, don't cry, don't be angry, all you know, all the thou shalt knots that were in your broken self you're throwing at me. And so, yeah. It's these are paramount things, those four things, care, compassion, understanding, and empathy, that are, I think, required not only for the betrayed spouse to heal wholly, but also for the relationship to be repaired and restored for reconciliation to occur. And I read this, I read, I don't even know where I found these uh these things, but it oh, it was in one of my Bible studies. The presence of pain doesn't prove the absence of forgiveness, it simply proves the depth of the wound. Even Jesus, after being resurrected, carried scars. So how do we expect to not have some scars?

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

And we're using this, I think. I this is my goal is to use this podcast to go, oh, you see this right here? Let me tell you something about that. You know, and you show I remember on one of my arms, I have a scar where my sister and I wrecked a bike. We were cruising around, probably at the church with dad, and he was babysitting us, and we had our bike up there riding around, and the sprinklers were on, so the sidewalk was wet, and we came cruising around the corner and wiped out. Oh, there it is right there. And I, you know, have a two-inch scar here on my arm, and and I have the story behind it. And you know what? I'm not ashamed to tell that story. And I feel safe. Right. You know, and so and I I say all that and I tell that story to ask this question. What parts of your story have not been addressed? What are the parts of your story that have not been addressed? Are you you know still running? And um Yeah. Any before I continue on?

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Oh, there's I'm sure there's parts of the story, you know, uh as I uncover healing and experience healing in certain

Healing Setbacks And Going Solo

SPEAKER_03 9:40

areas, I awaken, it seems like, um pain in new areas. It really kind of frustrates me. I would use different language. Um it really pisses me off, actually. Yeah. Um, but it's kind of like working out. You know, last week I had one of the best workouts ever. I mean, I worked out with about 50 pounds over my previous max, worked out with it.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Are you doping?

SPEAKER_03 10:18

No. No. Um, it just, you know, it was just one of those things that I it was I was in the zone that day, and it was an amazing workout.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

What if your body's healing from all you know, from all the abuse you you you subjected yourself to so much abuse through the years.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

You know, the next workout. Right. And the next workout wasn't that good. But that workout showed me that there's a lot of capacity left. And it's it's the same way in my healing journey is you know, I'll I'll get to a spot and I'll take a deep breath and then I'll step right off a cliff, it feels like. And I want to hear the uh well, you you experience the splat, you just don't hear the scream because it happens so fast, it's kind of like the uh root. The uh we were chasing cows one day. Oh gosh, and uh I'm even at that age, I was probably 52 or 53. I still have a little bit of wheels, not a lot, not close to what I used to, but I can still move.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

You were fast even then.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

I was running um trying to head some cows off and I had my boots on, and I was actually making some making some pretty good time. And then I was down. Just like at one step I was up, and the next step I was flat on my face because my foot had got hung under a root and there was nowhere to go. And it feels like that at times, you know, uh because I'll feel like I've made a pretty significant step in my healing journey, and then it's literally like the very the very next day.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

One moment or next day.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Are you you want to hear what I saw?

SPEAKER_03 12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

So we're with our ranching partner, and it's I don't I can't remember how many people there were three or four or five of us, and we're in a line, and our ranching partner is just calm. He's like, We're not gonna run them, we're not gonna get them all crazy, we're just gonna ease them up the fence line. And so between the five of us, we were spread out and we were just easing along. Okay, well, this one cuts out, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

We didn't have a dog at the time, so I was the dog.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Well, I don't know that that needed to happen. I'm curious if you determined in yourself, I'm gonna break out and get this one, or but I don't know what was going through your mind, and you probably don't even now, so many years later. But what I saw was you're gonna try to go out and do this and be the hero. And da da da. And I'm thinking, we have the herd, let's get them all in. We can get this one in a minute, it's not a big deal. And our ranching partner was just just stay the course, just stay, just coming down. And the great the great the funniest thing was we see you, and then you're flat, and we couldn't even take a second to just we were laughing, but we're having to just keep pushing the cattle, and we were almost to the corral. I don't know what that happened. It was hilarious. It was funny. Once we knew that you were okay, it was funny, yeah. But that's the that's a great, I think, metaphor of being a lone ranger, and when you get out there on your own, because we were all stay the course, thousand points of light. We were all staying together, we were all following the command of our leader. Stay here, do this, don't make any sudden moves. Well, you had to make a sudden move to get out there and get the one that cut. And we've had to do it before where we want to break away, and we just close the loop, get all of them in the thing, and then we'll come back around and bring that one back in because she's not going anywhere. All her buds are in the corral, and she knows it, and probably her baby as well. So that was my observation was you get out there by yourself, you're liable to hit something that you don't want to hit.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Yeah, it's a lot funnier when it's not so close to home. Right. You know, but it's the same thing. Um you know, it does. As as I run into those situations in our journey, um it's not funny.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

No. It's painful and um Yeah. Very much so. And I'm really speaking, as I mentioned last podcast, I'm really speaking to um us ladies who have been on this journey for

Why Safety Stays Broken

SPEAKER_00 16:00

several minutes. We're not fresh, we didn't have our discovery or disclosure yesterday or a week ago, whatever. We've been walking this for a while, years. And how in the world do we um walk continue to walk in an unsafe or with an unsafe individual? And that that's the pretty much the gist of these two episodes. How the what behind the why, the why behind the what. What how come safety remains broken? How come safety remains broken between us? The why is the the very foundation for healing missing? That that that's the first block. It begins with restoring a sense of safety. Because here and here's the truth. And I know here's a one thing I have learned, and I am so thankful. And John, if I have not said thank you, let me I'm I I don't want to say thank you, but I am grateful for this journey because I have learned so much, and I am not the same person I was crud, a year ago, six months ago, not the same person I was three years ago, especially not 15 years ago. And I'm so I'm grateful for the change, for the um, well, I had to, the had to, the need for me to dig into to discover number one, who God really was. That he wasn't some big bad booger bear waiting to beat me up, that he is a loving, caring, heavenly father. I am the daughter of the king of heaven and earth. And to grow, to learn that this anxiety, the hypervigilance, the need to the feeling of, oh my gosh, I've got to run away, I've got to get out of here. Uh I now know what all that is. And I know when it's happening inside of me so that I can be proactive to uh say get ahead of it, but to slow down that progression and uh to tell myself the truth about what's going on. I'm safe. Am I safe? If I'm not safe, I need to get safe. Am I okay? If I'm not okay, I need to get to a place where I can be okay. Am I loved? I am always loved by the king, by my daddy. I'm always loved, and I'm always worthy in his eyes because of what Jesus did for me. And so all of those things I'm grateful for learning how to recognize, how to be aware of what I'm feeling, where I'm feeling it in my body, and the tools to uh either battle what I need to battle or to sit and be still and to listen for God and for the truth. What's the truth? Because I tell myself a lot of things, not the truth. And I have a conversations all the time with myself, and I have to kick my own boutois and go, wait a second. No, nope, nope. You don't know that that's the truth. You don't know if you want to know the truth, ask. And ask, seek, and knock. So as safety remains broken, uh yeah, healing the relationship, we cannot heal. But you uh you're just sitting there looking at me. You're blurry because I'm looking through my reading glasses.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

I was counting on that. No. Okay. My facial ticks.

Where Real Safety Comes From

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting um conversation on you know, what does it mean to be safe? Where do we get our safety? And yeah, how much safety can I bring to the table?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Where do we get our safety? Um That's a where do we get our safety? We we okay, where do you think? I want to hear from you. I'm not gonna give you an answer.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Well, I th I think that um type in there. I think it's both and you know, I think I have to I have to be safe in in uh who I am and who God says I am, like you were talking about. And then I have to bring a safe presence into the conversation to be able to experience safety. If I don't have um if I don't have the ability to do both of those things, I can Can't show up safe. In other words, if I'm not safe, if I'm not getting my safety from above, and if I'm not bringing safety to the conversation, then I'll never feel safe. And I've been struggling with that myself, um, as far as bringing my bringing a sense of safety to the conversation. And I think that's part of what's been um the struggle in you feeling and experiencing safety is because I haven't been coming safe.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

So that's like, oh my gosh, I've been saying this for years.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

A Billy Haywood. A Bill Haywood.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Um yeah, that is true. You have to you uh don't have the power to um I would say harm my relationship with God necessarily, if I'm which is where my safety comes first.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Yeah, and what I was trying to say is I can't make you safe, right? I can show up safe. Right, you can be a safe person, right? And that's and and I have I have worked really hard to make you safe. Ah, you circumvented the but not be safe because I didn't feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Gotcha yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

And so I've really tried to shift that gear to simply show up safe. I still suck at it, but my mindset, you know, repentance, metanoia change your mind. And my mindset is changing on that.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Well, y'all heard it here first.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Is to change, to simply change how I show up. Not I can't make you safe. Right, I can't make you unsafe. Right. I can simply show up.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Right. You can be an unsafe person, which then tells my spidey senses, ear, ear, ear, you know, put the cross up and go, back off. The power of Christ compels you. The power of Christ compels you. Correct. My sense of wholeness and my sense of safety, which is I've which was the last episode that uh I'm sad you missed out on, was how do I create safety for myself? How do I become safe and a safe individual myself? And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

Yeah, because if we're not safe, we'll never be safe for each other. If we're not safe for ourselves, we'll never be safe for each

Unsafe Signals And Phone Transparency

SPEAKER_03 25:05

other. Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Right. Yeah. And there's some things that um occur that and when you're saying showing up safe, that means um lack of defensiveness, lack not minimizing, not blame shifting, not the roll of the eyes, not the shake of your head. No, those are all signals to me that this environment is not it remains unsafe. Makes sense. Some things, um, you know, a anonymous phone call or even watching you respond to text messages, I get curious. But I I'm I've chosen to not I've chosen to step back and just go, you know what? Hit the the way he will communicate that to me will send me the message if he's safe or not safe. If he includes me in what's going on in his life, that's a step towards safety. If he chooses to just look at it, respond and stick it in his pocket, take his phone in his pocket, that's unsafe. And that's I mean, that's the truth. Right? There's not been a um there's not been a reassurance to my system that danger from you is over. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Yeah, and sadly, I mean I don't know that danger from me will ever be over. I mean, I always will have the capacity to harm you.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, but it's an it shouldn't be in the same way.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

I don't have the desire to harm you, but I always have the capacity.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah, and it shouldn't, I say shouldn't. It ought not be in the same manner, in the same ways that if you're a different person, it's not gonna be an infidelity. Right. Right, which infidelity is this small word that encompasses so many things. Well, simply the keeping of secrets, which you're good at. And as is your entire family. Oh, as is my family. Remember my aunts? And they would be like, oh yeah, and and Joanne over there, she got drunk the other night. And they would whisper as if no one else could hear what they were whispering, and it lessened the gossip thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Like they were keeping some big secret, you know. But the key, I the key for us, John, if you don't know this, is our amygdala, which is our that's our alarm system, right? So we have around, we don't have them out here where we live. So if you ever come to the ranch and there's a tornado, just we're gonna be watching anyway. We don't have the alarms out here, so we have to be weather aware. But if you go up a town up or a town to the east, they have

Amygdala Alarms Panic And Memory

SPEAKER_00 28:40

the tornado sirens, the alarms, and they are loud and they are blaring. And if you're in town on the first Wednesday of the month or whatever day it is, Thursday, and they're testing them. Gosh, get inside. They are loud. They need to be because that that's the warning of danger. That's our amygdala. That thing stays activated. Warning, warning, warning. And my amygdala has been activated since now once you think back, since Wyoming. That is my first. No, no, no, no, no. Sound like my granddaughter. Um actually, when we lived in that duplex in Tyler, that was my first recognizes I think back panic attack. And then the next one that I know that I know that I know was when I was driving home from the hospital. I'd done, I don't know, three-day shifts or something. Like I'd been up there for a few days working, and I was driving home through the hoback camp, and I'm having I'm having a panic attack. I had no idea what it was. I have my oximeter, I'm sticking out my finger, I'm checking my pulse, my everything is fine physiologically, but I am losing it. And then it it all went to it all came to light in Arizona. Well, it came to light. It I finally got words for what was going on. I was having panic attacks. Well, now where I sit today, I can look back, and this is why it's good to not forget, by the way.

unknown 30:20

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yeah, that's a little dig there. The whole forgive and forget BS. Because I can look back and go, oh my gosh, that makes sense. Ah, that makes sense. Oh, that makes sense, and it makes sense now, and it tells me, you know what, Kim, you're not crazy. You're not losing your stuff because you're elder. I'm not elderly, you're getting older. You're not that's valid. That is valid, and it was because my amygdala was, I mean, you yeah, Wyoming was unsafe, just out of control. Uh anywho, but it's and and the truth is until that trauma's processed, which it's taken me, let's see, five years with my counselor one-on-one to work through just little bits and pieces of those times. And so my think about it, my amygdala's been activated. I'm guessing your amygdala has been activated. Even though you said when we first got married, I dealt with it. When I would ask you, have you dealt with what happened in your past there? I've dealt with it. And our because our memories and those emotions, it's a time date stamp. You know, it just stamps it. And holy smokes, we are fearfully and wonderfully made. And here's what's cool about it God never intended us to do this in a bubble, in a vacuum by ourselves. When we can talk it out, especially with a safe partner, oh my gosh. I am so curious of we probably could have done the eighteen-month two-year. But we didn't, we're on the twenty-year track right now. And that's sad. The the just the lack of empathy is I'll find a word for it. Right now it's ugh. It's just a thing. A sound. Empathy from the unfaithful

Empathy Attunement And Secondary Betrayal

SPEAKER_00 33:00

partner acts like a bomb. It validates the pain, acknowledges the full impact, demonstrates attunement. Have you learned attunement, John? What attunement is? I know what it is. I see how deeply this hurt you, and I'm willing to sit with that without making it about my discomfort.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Yeah, I would say no, I'm not skilled at that, but I know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, I I remind you, you're more concerned with your comfort than my safety. You're tuning to you. Tune in next time. Yeah, the absence of attunement and empathy keeps my nervous system in survival mode.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

But what I've recognized in that is that I don't feel safe. And so that's what I'm working on.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Well, you make it all about you, don't you?

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Well, yeah. What what I mean back to my the earlier conversation, I'm not showing up safe. It's what that's what I'm saying. That's why I can't be there. That's why I'm not showing up for you, is because I'm not showing up for me. I'm simply not showing up. And so that's something that I'm working on recognizing that I can be safe. I can show up safe in myself. And so it doesn't matter what happens around me. I can attune to what's happening around me if I can show up safe. But when I don't show up safe, I can't attune. I'm defensive, I'm dismissive, I'm all of the not flattering um ways that I react.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Um which causes, by the way, secondary betrayal.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Right. It and and it's simply because I'm not coming to the table stable or safe in myself and and resting in who I am. And so as a result, I got nothing for anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me. So I'm watching these YouTubes of um these state troopers that stop people. Oh my gosh, just show them your driver's license and registration. They're asking some questions, right? And every these ones that I watch, they are, they have diarrhea of the mouth. They just, what did I do? What did I do? What why don't I went and speeding or I didn't make that U-turn? Why didn't they have it all on camera? They show it on the camera, they don't show it to the PERP because the the

Defensiveness Through A Traffic Stop

SPEAKER_00 36:00

person cannot, that's a they can't do that. That's for the court to do, right? And they are just defensive. They're calling the officer liar and names and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, and I remember this one I watched last night, and it was a female trooper. And these guys are studs. They are studs. I that's my uh wannabe. That's my dead gum. I could have been a that instead of respiratory therapist. Anywho, and she goes, it would have been a simple five-minute, maybe not even a ticket, had she just shown me her driver's license and registration and insurance. And the lady ended up having to go to jail because she resisted arrest. And what it is is when you don't hand over your driver's license and registration and insurance, you're impeding law enforcement. And that's a restable offense. I'm like, oh my gosh, if you're not doing anything, give them your stuff. That's not a big deal. They have to prove that you're guilty in court. Good gravy. Why? I mean, people losing their ever-loving minds. If you're not guilty, why are you defensive? Why are you getting all angry? Why are you wanting out of the ticket? Why are you uh and it, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so parallels. But I feel like those troopers, when I'm just asking a simple question, license and registration, do you know why I pulled you over? And then they'll say, you didn't tell me why you pulled me over. And I'm going, oh my gosh. And they won't just listen to gain understanding. Because here's what I notice about these officers: they're willing to be kind. They don't want you to get, they don't want to have to go through all this stuff, they don't want to have to write their reports up. That's a pain. They prefer to either give you a warning or the ticket and then send you on your way. Oh my gosh. Ridiculous. Right? Ah, that's been my experience. It's yeah. So, which is not so. Why? My big I have the question, for what? For what? Where is the benefit for you to be acting like this all these years? Where's the benefit? What how has that helped us? This is not to answer on this episode right now. We can save it for the next one because we're we're running out of time. And our granddaughter's waiting on us.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

So Well, here's my comment on that YouTube. Those people aren't safe.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

And a lot of them will say, I don't feel safe.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Well, Nick, I don't feel safe, but it's not that. It's they aren't safe for themselves. Right. And that's why they're showing up that way. They have a guilty conscience that I can speak to that.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Well, dude, get safe. Get safe. Instead of get smart, we can do a TV show. Get safe. Get safe. Yah. So, oh my gosh. Oi, oi, oi. What do you even touch? My goodness.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

We may have to throw one more safety episode. We actually did touch on all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Second betrayal, trust can't be rebuilt without demonstrated empathy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

I mean, every one of those things were discussed.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

And that Latin proverb, he who can't be advised can also not be helped. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all of so if if you're in a traumatized state, if you're in hypervigilance and all this stuff, if your spouse is still not a safe human being, now they may be sober. So you're on the record is claiming to be sober since XYZ date, right? However, sobriety isn't just refraining from the addictions that you were, the porn, the sexual addictions. It's also sobriety, I think, encompasses all of our behaviors. Because what led to those things, what you're what you're talking about now, being unsafe, being unsafe. And so for us as these, as the hurting spouses who have been on this journey, what seems like forever, our symptoms can become chronic or complex if we don't take care of ourselves. And so I want to encourage you, if

Boundaries Support Groups And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 41:10

you're still, if you continue to have hypervigilance and intrusive thoughts, if you're emotionally dysregulated, if your self-esteem is being eroded, um, you're having physical effects, which is sleep issues, you're exhausted, anxiety is off the charts. Even um autoimmune diseases play into this. When we're in a traumatized state for an extended period of time, our bodies keep the score. And so um healthy boundaries, y'all, self-care. Oh my goodness, groups, support groups. I cannot encourage you a month a month enough to get in a good support group, one that understands betrayal trauma. It can be one at a church, but please, please, please make sure that they understand betrayal trauma. They're not forcing a quick forgiveness, a this, that, or the other. Forgive and forget. Well, you haven't forgiven. Well, you sin too, all the things that that get preached to us when all we need, we need ICU care. We we need love and understanding and validation. We don't need to be preached to. We've been riding this pony for a while now. Clear boundaries. Um finding a a trauma-informed coach or counselor. I man, I I just I can't encourage you enough to do that. You deserve to be seen and heard and supported. And whether this happens inside the relationship, which your spouse is very capable of doing, he just has to be willing to get the right help, the right understanding, the right teaching to learn the skills necessary to be a safe human being. And so whether it happens in your current relationship or through group, through your own recovery journey, please, please understand you deserve to be seen and heard and supported. And your healing does not require your partner's participation. Just a little FYI there. Relationship does. It requires repair, which requires empathy. And accountability. So for y'all out there on this journey, you are not too sensitive. You're not failing at healing. Your responses are normal, reactions to an abnormal, deeply violating situation. Healing is possible. However, it often requires your spouse, the betrayer, to do the hard internal work of developing genuine empathy rather than expecting you to move on without it. So if you are seeking someone, if you need groups, you you can reach out to me, Kim at hurtmeetshealer.com. I can point you to several that we work with. There are so many out there that are just great, great helps. Um if you are seeking coaching, I do that as well. Reach out to me. We'll get in touch. And um I do respond to all my emails. So any final words, John?

SPEAKER_03 45:12

This is a it's a hard topic and a hard journey. And just be kind to each other and to yourself as you walk through it.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Kindness doesn't mean better or weakness. There are times when it calls for strength to call you to better. John, to call you to step up. That that's not who God's called you to be is how the way you're acting. There's better in there. Find it.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Yeah, we're supposed to speak the truth in love.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

That's what my baseball bats, I labeled that love.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

Right. It doesn't always sound it won't always sound loving on the receiving end. But it's if we speak the truth in love because of love and we and we do our best to be loving, um, then w we just have to trust God with how it breaks through the barriers that are created.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

All right. Thank you. Thanks for showing up for this episode, John, and for all y'all out there, I hope you can find a nugget through our journey of healing first individually, and then hopefully we can heal as a couple as well. We'll see. Stay tuned. You just never know. And y'all, until next time, God bless. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. Remember, you are more than what happened to you. We'd be honored to come alongside and guide you on your healing journey. Connect with us at www.hurtmeetshealer.com. Until next time. God bless you.